could you be more specific as to what we're talking here?

Just because Person A killed Person B because they were Asian or gay or some other obscure reason they call a hate crime doesn't make any difference. Murder is murder, motives shouldn't come into it.

I'd recommend watching the South Park episode "Cartman's Stupid Hate Crime", which covers the topic well.

Yes, I agree. Let's reverse it; if you intend to do something good, but don't succeed, does it still count? NO. Our intentions don't matter in the end--it's what actually happened that's important.

I disagree with that slightly. If someone tries really hard to do something good, then we should give them kudos even if they bugger it up.

Sorry debs, for not being clear. I actually thought all afternoon about how the phrase this pick, and finally settled for this. Still no good apparently..

*Trying to be specific*
In some country's, crimes against minority groups (for example homosexuals, afro-americans etc) are punished with higher sentences than the same crime would if the victim wasn't part of such a minority group.

I think this is countereffective in the fight against discrimination of such groups. By making the punishment different for crimes against minority groups, you are saying 'They are different', which I think is an entirely wrong approach towards the problem of crimes against these groups.

I consider hate crimes as a form of terrorism.

Could any of you elaborate on 'hate crimes as a form of terrorism'?

oh i am so sorry, my bad sappp
it was my fault i completly misunderstood it is actually a very simple and well phrased question *smacks head* you will have to excuse my brain

this is something that really annoys me in britain we have double standards at the moment as every political figure here is trying to convince the non white community that they are not racist
for instance at my local high school that i attended my pagen friend got detention for wearing some sort of pagan symbol around her neck and yet my muslim friend was never asked to even take off her bracelet
same with crime if there is a fight in town between two people of different races, even if they were a couple of friends who got drunk and rough the white guy always ended up in the local news as a racist
and here is the one thing that i will never forget, my asian friend and me were once messing around and bantering and everything and i said i wouldn't help with someone homework or something daft and we started bickering and making fun of one another and eventually he said
"too busy having a cup of tea ahh we?" and i replied
"oh go have another bhajee" (or is it spelled bhagee?)
and my teacher hit the roof and suddenly i'm being marched down to the principles office and been told paki is not a acceptable term and i need to learn respect, no one would even pause to listen to me find out i never even said that! even if i had it would only be like him calling me a brit but still.....
urgh

anyways to sum up I agree mainly because 90% of the time it's not actually a hate crime in the UK it's just stupid ignorant people thinking double standards are the way to solve racism

i don't really have much experience with other hate crimes as they are very rare in britain

I typed a long response to this, but Fanpop lost it.

ha ha ha ha

great debate

"i had the best argument but fanpop lost it and you can't prove i was wrong"

i should try that sometime :P

LOL, yeah maybe that would work.

But seriously DrDevience, please, PLEASE re-type it. I would really like to hear your thoughts on this.

Well, I'd like to know what everyone defines as 'hate crime' and 'terrorist act'?

Extremists crashed planes into the Twin Towers at the WTC because the towers were in the United States. Could this not be considered a 'hate crime?' Why would we treat a member of this group any differently than someone else who crashed a plane into a building for some other reason?

Maybe I'm taking this question the wrong way, but it seems to me that there is room for interpretation.

i don't really understand you kateliness

are you saying you would treat a person different for their reasons of purposefully crashing in to a large building to kill as many people as possible?

'Extremists crashed planes into the Twin Towers at the WTC because the towers were in the United States. Could this not be considered a 'hate crime?'

Even if it is, should the offenders have a higher penalty when the WTC was filled with gay, lesbians, Afro-Americans, disabled people, in other words minority's than if they were filled with the white, christian majority?

Also, the term hate crime is just stupid. When I kill a gay, it is because of 'hate' and when I kill a heterosexual it is because of..what? Love? Isn't every crime against another person driven by hate?

As a white, straight person, if I was killed my murderer would not be convicted of a hate crime. So he gets a lower sentence than if I'd been black or gay. Discrimination! (in the negative sense of the word).

I'm just asking for people's definitions and their thoughts on the differences between the two :)

No, I was condensing the entire group of people into 'Americans' and considering their acts fueled by racism.
Were those who crashed the plane just entirely random instead of part of this extremist group, would we consider giving away an ounce of freedom of citizens to pursue other members of the group? We cannot punish those who piloted the planes of course, but we are willing to push aside more liberties to find their supposed colleagues... could this be considered a form of punishment for everyone in the United States, especially those of Middle Eastern Origin?

I don't know. Perhaps this entire argument only makes sense to me... maybe my brain is looking at this question differently from everyone else... or maybe I'm suffering from an extreme lack of sleep and I'm twisting definitions and defying logic...

Oh, and, to me, a 'hate crime' in my definition is most of the time not a crime against someone you know personally. It is a crime driven by racism, sexism, anti-Semitism, homophobia... just pick your form of bigotry. It is a crime fueled by ignorance instead of greed, passion, insanity, etc.

I will retype it as soon as this rain stops and my hands stop aching

This is a great question.

I cannot debate this impartially, as a close personal friend was a victim of a cruel hate crime and I can't get his face out of my head.

Logically, I agree. Illogically, well...