I think both of this are the reason I didn't get my Brucas happy ending :(

It was in that freaking Mark's head since the beginning, so.

Mark said that Leyton were ending up together..

Please! Mark said it soooo long ago!

Yeah, I'm not really sure I mean I defiantly don't think it was entirely b/c of the Chad and Sophia split, but a part of me thinks that in some way that had to cause at least a little bit of it.

But who knows! I guess nobody will know for sure.

that is true but i think the chophia split gave him an opening

i have my own theory :D

I acknowledge that eventually LP would have been given another chance, but if CS hadn't split, you can not convince me one bit that BL would have gotten such a shit breakup.

It was rushed and highly unbelievable.

They are professionals. I don't believe Mark decided to change the storyline because they broke up.

I understand that Mark planned all along to have Leyton end up together but maybe along the road he may have changed his plans or at least given Brucas more time, I don't think his decision was set in stone, I do however think C/S's split helped Mark choose to put Leyton together in the end.

Let's not kid ourselves here lol. A plan is a plan. Yes, I can understand how people would want to say "mark planned leyton from the pilot, but things change"... or whatever. But things didn't change. Yes BL were introduced to us, and Lucas fell in love with someone other than Peyton. But the signs for Lucas and Peyton were still there all along, even when mark brought BL into the picture. Lucas was still putting Peyton before Brooke, LP were still cheating together, and the storyline of their feelings for eachother and their past kept being revisited.

So it's not like mark planned LP originally, but then BL were created and things changed, and marks love for LP was suddenly forgotten about... until chophias breakup. That's not how it happened at all. Marks love for LP, and the signs of BL not working out or being meant to be together were there ALL ALONG. anyone can see that... the proof is on screen

OOooh FFS get over it! They're proffesionals!

OOooh FFS get over it! They're proffesionals!

I'm not saying they aren't professionals or that it was ALL about them S, but come on! It's just pure coincidence that Chad & Sophia split and then BL get this random breakup.

And I DON'T CARE what people say, it WAS random. It made no sense continuity wise.

I thing that LP was always planned by Mark, and BL was meant to play a far smaller part of the show... Honestly I think that CS marriage was one of the reasons to develop the BL plot...

The "real" reason behind BL's breakup was that they weren't meant to last. Period. That was Mark's vision from the beginning, and that vision never waivered. Sure, Mark obviously decided to have LP venture out, explore other relationships, and fall in love with other people. But so what? That doesn't mean that his plan for LP to END up together ever changed. Even during BL's relationship and after they fell in love, it was very obvious that they weren't going to last. Blaming their split on Chophias personal life outside of the show just seems like a cop-out to me... and a way of making things easier for BL fans to accept.

If there are BL fans out there that are convinced that the only reason there couple didn't end up together was because of Chophia's divorce... then more power to them I guess. But if you go back and watch the freaking pilot, i think it's pretty clear who was meant to end up together in the end <3

LP was always going to be the end result so whether CS had stayed together or not BL would've ended

Mark from the beginnig basically said 'Lucas & Peyton are meant to be, they are going to end up together' & beins as im an LPer im glad :)
I think he made BL, for a bit of diversity & he probably did want soe fans to root for Leyton & some for Brucas.
At the end of the day chophia are professionals & if Mark wanted BL to be endgame it wouldnt have mattered wether chad & sophia were together or not.
Mark was a leytoner -he wanted them together, and so do i ♥

BL got together like right after CS's divorce, and they still pulled of that great acting. Therefore, I don't believe it has anything to do with them. Mark had LP in his mind since the pilot, so it's obvious why he made BL break up.

^ agreed!

What Holly said.

I think I even read once that the close work between Chopia might be a slight problem after their breakup...and it's comprehensible. Even though they're professionals it's kinda awkward nevertheless.
You know...the whole BL breakup thing just seemed so out of the blue...it didn't make any sense!
But OF COURSE it was also about the couple Mark loved [Leyton]. I'm not saying Mark was planning LP since the very beginning but if he's a Leyton fan why should Brucas be endgame? Of course it's also about a show's creator! I'm not complaining or something, it's just my opinion ; )

It was always Mark intension to ley LP be endgame!
But I think partially, I would've also been some sort of akward for CS I think.

I'm glad some of you get what I'm saying!

I'm NOT saying that BL wouldn't have eventually broken up, most of us figured LP would have another shot from back in S1. BUT, I honestly believe, after all the things I've heard not just on random sites, but from online friends that have BEEN TO THE SET, they would NOT have been broken up the way they were if it weren't for CS splitting.

I swear CS broke up at the end of season 2 anyways...

But yeah tbh it was probably a catalyst for it

Actually they got married near the end of S2. The wedding was sometime in April, and they announced they were separating sometime in October.

Then, why would they dedicate two whole seasons to making Brucas relationship that beautiful and stable?

^ beautiful and STABLE? What show are you watching? lol BLs relationship was the most unstable relationship in the whole show

I think the timing had to do with Chad/Sophia. I have a hard time with couples like this that are "destined from the first episode" it's really annoying. Luke/Lorelai are the exception, and it wasn't like they were both crushing on each other from day one. Leyton is one of the most unrealistic couples ever. Sorry this is just my opinion.

I think that a BL break up was planned, but maybe Chad and Sophia's split caused the break up to happen sooner then planned.

^^Yeah, i think that's what xoheartinohioxo was tryna put out or.....maybe not. What do i know anyways, lol! But whateves, i still say CS had nothing to do with BL's break-up.

i agree with holly. i kno BL was to break up cuz marks a bias little ass, but im pretty sure the chopia break up is what made it happen soo soon randomly and hastelly. it was just terribly written and unexpected and thats cuz of chopia, but yea i knew they were gona break up eventually.

"beautiful and STABLE? What show are you watching? lol BLs relationship was the most unstable relationship in the whole show"

For Christ sakes, people can have their own opinions.

^ No, I'm sorry but BLs relationship was not stable. If people want to have the opinion that their relationship was beautiful, that's fine. But it was not stable. That's not even a matter of opinion, it's fact lol... and it's proven on screen. I'm sorry but there's just no way that you can legitimately argue that BL are an unstable couple, because they are.

Excuse me?? Did you actually just say that someone can't have an opinion?!?

Oh that is lovely!! Fucking lovely! YOU, you who is constantly bitching anytime someone calls out bullshit, you're the one bitching and moaning that someone is trying to tell you not to have an opinion!

HYPOCRITICAL FUCKING BITCH.

^ are you referring to me? Because if you are... what are you talking about? lol. I never said anything about whether or not someone is allowed to have an opinion. I said that whether or not BLs relationship was stable ISNT even a matter of opinion, because it isn't. It's fact. And I also believe that I said if someone wants to have the opinion that their relationship was "beautiful", that's FINE... because that IS a matter of opinion, and you are allowed to have it.

But it was not stable. That's not even a matter of opinion

Who are you to tell what is a matter of opinion?? BL may have fought, they may have had drama, but they were far from the most unstable couple.

Either way, it's not up to YOU what someones opinion is! That's what you always seem to be accusing me of, not letting someone have an opinion supposedly.

BL were unstable!! That's a FACT. I'm not questioning anyones opinion, because it's not an opinion. yes, whether or not they were the MOST unstable couple in the show is a matter of opinion... but whether or not they were stable in general isn't. And that's all I said. Team_Brooke said that BL were "beautiful and stable", and I said that if you want to think they were beautiful, that's fine... but they aren't stable. Because they aren't. I'm sorry but that's just NOT a matter of opinion, and it's not open for discussion lol

TheBoySawAComet -- Oh! like LP has such a fucking STABLE relationship. LMFAO.

um, did I ever say that LPs relationship was stable? No I didn't lol. But since you brought it up, yes LPs relationship was a hell of a lot more stable than BLs will ever be... thanks

Totally. Because art, running red lights, cheating, lying, sneaking around, blood loss, more cheating, hurting the people around you, cookie dough fights, turing down a propsal, finding and loving someone new (Lindsey), saying I do at the alter with someone else (Lindsey), having THAT person cancel the wedding, saying I hate you; you ruined my life, a painting with lyrics on cement, a phone call proposal, running off to Vegas, a novel about a comet, playing house, an unplanned pregnancy, a shotgun wedding and running off together in a car - ohh that just screams stable to me! *sigh* oh how I wish for a relationship just like that.

lmao do you really want me to list all of the unstable aspects of BLs relationship right now? I don't think you do. Because it would be twice as long as your little LP list. And by the way, half of those things you listed don't even have anything to do with being an unstable couple lol. Just listing random aspects of LPs relationship doesn't automatically mean that they are "unstable" aspects.

"playing house"? "unplanned pregnancy"? "blood loss"(lmao!)? "a painting with lyrics on cement"? "art"? "running red lights"? "cookie dough fights" (lmao!)? "a novel about a comet"? "running off together in a car"? How exactly do those things mean that LP are unstable? lol if those are the best examples you can come up with, that's pretty pathetic. Nice try though!

Okay, you want to talk unstable?

How about the fact that the only thing that EVER prompted LP to be together, was Lucas having a relationship with someone else. They weren't even solid enough to get it together all of their own accord.

S1- Peyton had plenty of chances to be with Lucas, but she turned him down time after time, ran away from him and declared him FAIR GAME. Then bam! the second she finds out he's gone on a date with Brooke, oooh look! Peyton decides she wants to be with Lucas! What a shocker!

S2- This season more than proved that there was nothing holding either of them back from being with each other if they had wanted to be with each other. Even before Jake came back to TH, not once did either of them make any effort at being together.

S3- Not only does she wait until BL are fully in love with each other & in a serious, committed relationship, she PROMISES Brooke that she's not going to hurt her again! And then would you look at that! A few weeks later, at the most, she's suddenly decided that she wants the unavailable again!

S4- You can spew all the bullshit that you want about "oh well they got together in S4, Lucas stopped denying his feelings. Blah blah blah insert more hypocritical LP fan bullshit here." BUT, the ONLY reason they got together was because Brooke was selfless and put her feelings behind her so called best friends feelings and shoved Lucas to her.

S5- So you talk about how Lucas loved Peyton so much, he never stopped loving her, he was just in denial with Lindsay. Then how come when Peyton admitted that she still loved him, that she made a mistake, and begged him not to marry Lindsay, he STILL SAID "I DO"?! And even after Lindsay told him it was over, he kept trying to get her back. The only thing that finally got him to call Peyton to go to Vegas was the fact that nobody else would say yes.

And btw, since when was an unplanned pregnancy & a shotgun wedding a sign of stability??

So, you're trying to tell me that the only reason Lucas ever got together with Peyton and stayed with her both times, was because Brooke shoved him to her... and because she was the only one who would say yes to going to Vegas?? lol aww, I almost feel sorry for your poor little BL brainwashed self.

Yes, Brooke gave Lucas the "ok" to be with Peyton in season 4... but does that mean that is the ONLY reason he chose to be with her? I don't think so. He's a big boy, he can make his own decisions. And call me crazy, but didn't Brooke also give him the "ok" to be with Peyton in season 2, after she found his box of peytons things in his closet, and thought he was into her? But did he go running to Peyton, just because Brooke gave him the "ok"? No he didn't. He stood by his true feelings, and decided to be with Brooke, because that's what he wanted at the time. Except the second time around, PEYTON was who he wanted... so he went. And if Brooke really forced him to go to Peyton, do you think he would have been able to fall in love with her, and happily stay with her for so long, if it was something that he didn't even truly want, and was forced into? Um no. He stayed with Peyton for so long because she was who he WANTED to be with. Brooke giving him the "ok" in NO WAY means that she pushed him towards Peyton.

It just means that first of all, Brooke KNEW herself that they wanted to be together, and secondly she was just letting him know that he didn't have to hold back this time and worry about hurting anyone. So he saw that he could finally put the possibility of hurting someone's feelings aside, and just be with Peyton. It's not like Brooke took him by the ear and yelled "go be with Peyton or I'll kill you!!". She simply let him know that it was ok for him to finally be with the girl that he SHOULD be with. Call me crazy, but if he really truly didn't want to be with Peyton, he wouldn't have gone. And he wouldn't have been able to confess to her that she's the one he wants next to him when his dreams came true, he wouldn't have fallen in love with her, continued to stay with her past high school, then propose down the road. I'm sorry but there's no way in hell you can give Brooke credit for all that, and claim that she "shoved" him into all of that lmao. That's utterly ridiculous.

Again... The only reason he chose Peyton in season 5, was because she was the only one who would say yes to going to Vegas? Give me a freaking break. Or maybe he chose her because he was IN LOVE with her, had been writing about his love for her and thinking about her for quite sometime, he finally saw that she truly wanted him and wasn't going to hurt him again, and he was sick of hiding?? Ever think of that? You know, the story and logic that ACTUALLY happened? I know it's a foreign concept to you, but try your best to keep up. Also, last time I checked... Lindsey called him and told him that "she does miss him? It's all she does". So yes, Lindsey obviously would have taken him back, IF he wanted her. And Brooke... Well, Brooke clearly wasn't even a real option lol mark just threw her in there for the sake of amusing BL fans for an episode or 2.

And what does going to Vegas have anything to do with it? Even when they got to Vegas, Lucas realized that it wasn't right, and that they should have a proper engagement and wedding. It's not like Lucas was in a rush to find some rebound skank to say yes to Vegas, so he could go have a tacky wedding and fix all his problems... because in the end that's not what he decided to do. He decided to have a proper, real wedding with Peyton, because it's what she deserved.

And what the hell does an unplanned pregnancy have to do with being an unstable couple? Incase you forgot, naley had an unplanned pregnancy too... does that make them unstable? Millions of couples go through unplanned pregnancies, does that make them unstable? Who cares if LP got pregnant by surprise? That doesn't say anything about them as a couple, or their relationship and the love they have for eachother. Pregnant or not, they still loved eachother all the same. So I don't see what your point is with that. At all.

Listen bitch, I'm so over your bullshit. YOU start shit all the fucking time, and then you try and pull this "I'm so innocent" crap. You flat out have fucking said more than once that BL fans are not allowed to have the opinion that BL are stable. FUCK YOU. Do not ever fucking tell me or anyone else what opinion we're allowed to have.

You are a miserable, hypocritical fucking bitch. All you ever do is cause drama or stir up drama! And then you somehow believe that you can pin all the blame on everyone else. It's fucking hilarious how you've tried to accuse me of being the drama creator so many times, yet I've seen a shit load of other users call you out on all the bullshit drama you bring to this site! And there are plenty of times where it's not even here on the OTH spot!!

Grow the fuck up and stop attacking Brucas and Brucas fans ALL THE FUCKING TIME! It's like attacking them is your oxygen or something. You'd think you're going to fucking die if you didn't!

The fact that you hate BL so fucking much that you actually believe it's up to YOU to decide what opinion someone can have... that signals a major problem there sweetheart.

You want to keep fucking with me, go for it. You like to talk a lot of shit to me and about me, but see how fun it is now. I'm through trying to be reasonable and talk reasonably to you. From now on it's open fucking season on your ass.

Oh my gosh... Big bad holly is coming out! I'm so scared! I guess I better stop speaking my mind, and run off in the corner and hide in fear! Sorry hun, you may have been successful at trying to intimidate and swear at other people on this site... but it's not gonna work on me. I couldn't care less what you think of me, and I don't need your approval in the least bit. so holly thinks I'm a hypocritical bitch... who the hell cares! do you really think you are important enough for me to care about what you think of me? mmm sorry, you're not that damn important. No matter what your little band of followers have you believing.

And yeah, i'm the one playing innocent all the time. Right. And you don't? You are involved in JUST as much drama on this site as I am. In fact, whenever I am involved in drama, it's usually with YOU. And I know it's hard for you to hear, but there ARE people that talk about you too, and don't find you to be the superior, loveable, friendly holly you try and portray yourself as. You can talk about how I bash BL and their fans all you want... but wait, don't you do the same thing to LP every chance you get? Yeeeah, I'm pretty sure you do. And you call me a hypocrite. Funny.

Mark wanted LP all along but I think the shit break up they had was definitely caused by the CS split. Yes, Mark would have eventually broken them up but he may have given them more time, more of a reason to break up.

Oh and TheBoySawAComet...you actually piss me off with your highly illogical arguments trying to defend your precious LP. Get over it. If you can't even sustain a proper argument over fiction, I'd hate to think how you argue over real life issues. And before you start, no, I'm not just saying this because you're an LP fan - I don't bash LP fans - I'm saying this because you are, quite frankly, full of shit.

Nobody is trying to intimidate you, but there you go again with the lies!

And actually, no i don't do the same thing with LP! Either you're really dense, or you just can't control the lying, but just about anyone here can back me up on this - I haven't been anti LP for a while now. In fact, I've been fairly accepting of them up until the past few days.

I may point out the things i still dislike about them, but that's because I'm not a hypocrite like you. Just because I've come to accept them and like some of their scenes/moments, that doesn't mean I'm not gonna still speak up on what i think is wrong with them.

Not once have I had an issue on the LP spot since i started coming on there and posting picks etc.

Hell, here is a pick of yours where I'm clearly not being anti in the least:

link

And be honest, over the past few months, tell me when I've bashed LP before all of this crap. Though to be honest, I don't think I'm bashing. I'm telling the truth about what I think.

^ ok... and I see what I say as me telling the truth about what i think too.

I've waisted enough of my time with these stupid fights with you. Why don't we just agree to stay out of eachothers business. If one of us is discussing something with someone else... then the other one should just stay out of it, and let eachother fight our own battles, without butting in and creating more drama. We are NEVER going to see eye to eye, on pretty much anything. So there really is no point in even trying anymore. We've gone around in circles for months now, repeating the same crap in every single argument. It's getting us nowhere. We should seriously make some kind of agreement to just never have words with eachother again, because it's nothing but unnecessary drama, every single time. we've done enough name calling to last us a lifetime. You don't like me and my opinions, just like I don't like yours. Period. Nothing else needs to be said

Fine by me.

The end.

*raises eyebrow* My point was that they were never stable - they also never just realised that they wanted to be with each other when someone elses heart [Brooke, Jake, Lindsey] wasn't on the line. If that's true love, then I never want to find it.

I was just listing the major scenes that LP is based on sweets - you can laugh if you want but it's YOUR couple that you're laughing at. ;)

It's crap if you think Mark planned it all along. I'm betting the reason Leyton never officially got together until season 4 is because Chad and Sophia were together up until around then. No doubt.

I accept the fact that LP was always going to be endgame because Mark liked them better, and that Leyton were always going to get another chance in season 4. But the way BL broke up was rubbish and i think when/how they broke up was coz of C/S.

I think it was clear from the start, that the BL relationship wasn´t going to last, just the way they were written from the start. I was surprised they lasted as long as they did.

Ok i will tell you straight cause i am more than 100% sure that they split cause Chad cheated on Sophia and they divorced and i think that thing made Sophia's performances -especially in s3 episode 22 at Naley wedding when she finds out about the kiss and they talk in the other room- so real.

Mark fault

come on!
destiny shot! nuff said.

Maybe the timing of them breaking up? But overall I'm pretty sure Mark wanted LP from the start.

Mark Schwahn stated that the first love triangle was supposed to be Nathan - Peyton - Lucas. However, seeing Sophia & Chad chemistry and given the fact they were engaged he gave them a shot. However Leyton & Naley were his plans from the start, infact Brooke wasn't even in the pilot. At least that is what I read. Maybe Chad & Sophia break up made their separation faster but it was going to happen.

Marc or what his name is was always Leyton fan. so i dont think is had something to with Chad and Sophia