I'm disappointed because it left Harry and Severus each on their own (and Harry was lucky to have Ron and Hermione with him - Severus was alone) to deal with the aftermath of his death.

They lost time to find stuff while things could have gone faster if at least someone like Minerva had been aware. If Minerva had known about the little "service" between Severus and Dumbledore, Severus would not have spent a horrible time at Hogwarts and he would have had support. He was a good Occlumens. I understand his revolt after Dumbledore because he was not told anything about the horcruxes.

That's why I think that Dumbledore is somehow like Voldemort : secret and manipulative. The end justifies the means. At least, that is clear with Voldemort, while with Dumbledore...

I don't dislike Dumbledore but honestly, he could have trusted Severus a bit more than that. But I'm not surprised : he had no consideration for him or for Harry either.

I disagree completely.

This is just my point of view, and this is something I am very passionate about, so...you've been warned. :p :)) ;)



We don't know what level of skill Minerva has with either Legilimency or Occlumency; if Voldemort had felt he had a reason to be suspicious, he could have invaded the minds of most of the inhabitants of Hogwarts, since the Mental Arts are not taught at the school, only those specifically trained in them would have been able to defend themselves, and they'd have to be pretty powerful to defend themselves from Voldemort. We all know Harry had no intentions of ever employing the Occlumency he managed to learn; it would have been terrifyingly easy for Voldemort to fuck everyone right up, had he bothered to look into that boy's wide-open head.

Severus was in a position where he couldn't afford anyone to know what was really going on. Tell one person your secret, and you have an ally (and you better hope they can keep their mouth shut). Tell two people, and you're pushing your luck. Tell three, and you've just slit your own fucking throat. And really, would the Severus that we feel we know so well have wanted anyone else in jeopardy? Would he have wanted an innocent person risking, perhaps losing, their lives for or because of him? Why do you think Dumbledore didn't tell Severus about Harry's quest for the Horcruxes? Not because he didn't trust him that much, but because he knew him so well! Don't you think Severus would have been livid, discovering that the child he's been protecting all this time is out there without protection hunting down and destroying the Dark Lord's horcruxes? Don't you think Severus would have tried to do it himself? Can't you just hear the argument? "Why didn't you entrust this task to me, Dumbledore?" "Because I need you here, Severus, keeping the students safe from the Carrows, and your absence from Hogwarts would certainly be noticed."

Dumbledore didn't know that Severus wouldn't be brutalized by Voldemort after his death; Voldemort considered everyone beneath him, even those most valuable to him. He would have sacrificed Bellatrix if it would have served to further his achievement of immortality. Voldemort never violated Severus' mind because he didn't feel he had a reason to. If he HAD, that would have been it. Game Over. End of story.

Why should Dumbledore have explained everything? Why should it have been easier? I mean really, if JK had done that, people would be bitching that the ending was boring because she'd made the quest too easy (because that's just human nature).

Everyone is entitled to their own opinions, absolutely, but I get irritated sometimes by some of the Dumbledore-bashing. I want to ask some of the Dumbledore-haters how much they hate Gandalf too, because it's nearly the same situation. Gandalf even asked himself if he had sent Frodo to his death, and he felt horrible about it but there was nothing else that could have been done. I don't think Dumbledore EVER enjoyed placing anyone in the positions they were in. I don't think that man ever WANTED Harry or Severus or Sirius or Remus or any of the other people we love so much to risk or lose their lives. I think that if Dumbledore could have done it all himself, without risking anyone else, he would have. Just as I believe without reservation that if Gandalf could have carried the One Ring to the fires of Mount Doom himself, he would not have hesitated.

But wars aren't as simple as that, and great epics are full of points of contention that keep people arguing (and reading) for decades. I have a feeling that fifty years from now, people are still going to be arguing about all of this. As much as I hate it, I hope they are, because that means the Harry Potter saga has the staying power that Tolkien's work has. And props to JK for having the balls to put it out there.


Ok...I'm done, I think. O.O

I'm... not sure how I feel about this.

On the one hand, it would have saved Harry, Ron, and Hermione a lot of wasted effort and time by Dumbledore not being fully honest. Can you imagine all they could have gotten done had he told them from the beginning about the Hallows? About the plan between Severus and himself? Can you imagine the amount of innocent lives that could have been spared? Voldemort couldn't look into Harry's head -- Dumbledore himself says so, that the pain of it was too great for him to bear -- so there wouldn't have been much danger to the trio. And even if there was danger, would it have been greater than the danger they were already in? Doubtful.

But, plans never translate smoothly from paper to real life. Of course Dumbledore planned for Severus to kill him, but that was not planned down to the exact second it would happen. I'm sure Dumbledore, before the end of Harry's sixth year, thought he would have at least a little more time to fill Harry (at least) in on these things. Maybe him keeping Harry so much in the dark wasn't done on purpose.

Also, how much did Dumbledore himself know? Did he know (not suspected, but actually know) the cup was a Horcrux? He certainly didn't know the locket had been switched. Did he know Tom Riddle had found the Diadem and then turned it into a Horcrux? Did he know that Voldemort would make the connection and believe that Dumbledore had the Elder Wand? Maybe him keeping Harry in the dark was a result of Dumbledore just not knowing the answers.

As for Severus...

How much was Severus kept in the dark? We know he was told about the Horcruxes -- Dumbledore tells him Harry is one, and that he must die for Voldemort to be defeated. Was he even kept in the dark at all?

Personally, I think there's too many variables that we don't know about for me to say whether I'm disappointed or not in Dumbledore possibly keeping things from Harry and Severus.

@bri-marie: Very well said, as always, though...

You said, "Voldemort couldn't look into Harry's head -- Dumbledore himself says so, that the pain of it was too great for him to bear" True, if we're talking about just poking around, I agree completely, but with as paranoid as Voldemort was, if he had felt he had a definite reason to do so, I believe he would have risked the pain. In The Prince's Tale, when Severus is about to take the Sword of Gryffindor to Harry, Dumbledore tells him, "Now, Severus, the sword! Do not forget that it must be taken under conditions of need and valor--and he must not know that you give it! If Voldemort should read Harry's mind and see you acting for him--" So, it was still a possibility.

Dumbledore didn't come straight out and say, "Harry is a horcrux," he told Severus simply that Harry had a piece of Voldemort living in him, and that Nagini was incredibly important to Voldemort, yadda yadda yadda...he didn't tell him about the diary, the ring, the locket, the cup or the diadem being horcruxes. He didn't even tell Severus why Harry needed the Sword. Though, I think Severus did wait around to see what Harry was going to do with the Sword, and he might have put that together with what Dumbledore had told him about Harry's Little Guest, and the fact that Moldybutt had told him Harry might try to get into Ravenclaw tower. He was a brilliant man...So I have to wonder how much Severus had figured out himself. I think the scene in the movie hit right on it, that terrible moment when Voldemort tells him, "only I can live forever..." The look on our Potions Master's face makes me think it all dawned on him right then.

True, it was a possibility, but not a very likely one. I mean, we see Voldemort wondering several times if Harry knew about the Horcruxes and was going after them, but he's pretty quick to dismiss the idea. He could have looked into Harry's mind a number of times, especially after the cup was stolen (and I think he knew about the sword then as well, but I don't remember). But he didn't. He lets his arrogance get the best of him, and he believes that he has no reason to worry.

Ah, but was it that Dumbledore didn't tell Severus, or was it that Severus just didn't give Harry those particular memories? Dumbledore may not have told Severus that those things were Horcruxes per-say, but he may have let Severus know that they were/are important (and then Severus just filled in his own answers).

And, again, regarding the cup and Diadem; Did Dumbledore himself know they were Horcruxes? Did he even know that Voldemort had stolen the cup and found the lost Diadem?

You know, I thought about the possibility that Severus didn't give those memories to Harry...

And it's likely that Dumbledore didn't know, I think you're right about that.

Most of the things you all have mentioned are reasonable to me. But there are still many things, many questions, which keep my mind fighting (Is that correct? I hope you can understand what I mean).
I think that Snape could have survived when Dumbledore only had tried to protect him. In my opinion he dosen't cared about Snape. Snape was only an instrument, a useful weapon (can I say this so?).
I think that Harry wasn't strong enough to protect his mind from Voldemorts attempts to look in his head. But Snape was. And Voldemort didn't cared about Snapes thoughts. Voldemort was too arrogant. Dumbledore has known this for sure (thats all is what I believe). So Dumbledore could have given Snape some useful hints without risking too much. Maybe that could have helped Snape to survive. He was so clever and could have figured something out. And he could somehow have helped Harry as he was searching for the Horcrux in Hogwarts. He must not have died this way.
My other thought is, maybe J.K. Rowling just wanted to get rid of Snape. That would explain why she 'left him alone' and let him die this way. But thats only a thought.

Well...I don't think that she wanted to "get rid of Snape", unless you also say she wanted to get rid of Mad-Eye, Hedwig, Fred, Colin Creevey, Remus & Tonks as well. In the flow of the story, death was Severus Snape's fate. It's a horrible truth that every writer must face, that the characters you have given life to and love sometimes have to die. And he didn't die alone; Harry, Ron and Hermione were right there with him, they didn't leave until after Voldemort made his little announcement. I don't think there's really any way that Severus could have assisted Harry in his search for Ravenclaw's diadem--he would have been seen by someone, and besides, (a)Voldemort didn't tell Severus there was a horcrux in Ravenclaw Tower, and (b)there's no way in Hell that Harry would have trusted him at that point in the story. :)) And again, if Dumbledore had known the diadem was a horcrux, he would have destroyed it himself.


And here's a thought: maybe Dumbledore did tell Severus "helpful things", but JK just didn't write it...I'm a firm believer in the idea that there's other things that happen between characters in a story that the author just doesn't write. Happens for me when I write, and I can't be the only one in the world it happens to...I can't be that unique. :p

Here's another thought: how much would Severus have helped Harry, really? Harry had to sacrifice himself. There was no way around it. What was Severus going to do? Convince Harry he can trust him, help him find and destroy the diadem (without being seen by the Carrows...or another Slytherin other than Slughorn [bite me, you know they'd have finked, especially Draco, Pug-nose Parkinson, or the Idiot Twins {Crabbe and Goyle}]), then very calmly give him the memories of the discussions with Dumbledore regarding the Final Request and what Harry had to do (namely die), then happily march him out to the Dark Lord and stand there and watch Voldemort kill him? Or maybe...ahhh...ok...I think I'll stop there because I think I just gave myself an idea for a fic... >.<

Yeah, anyway...I think about stuff like this while I'm at work, it actaully keeps me from freaking out and putting some serious hurt on some people. So I kinda' hafta' apologize to you folks for making you read it. :))

Good arguments. Nearly everyone of us is writing?! I do it for myself...
Ok, here is another thought ;-) Maybe Rowling wanted to get rid of all these people (and the bird), because she had so much time with the whole stuff. When I'm writing and thinking about my own story, I have indeed the thought of 'killing' someone. Sometimes because he was too long a part of the story and it is time to do so. Don't get this wrong :)
She wanted to finish it all. There had to be an end. But I (as a reader) am disappointed how she 'has killed' Snape. She knew how we all loved him. It is omnypresent. Everywhere you can see and read it. And with this decision she has completely destroyed my world about Harry Potter and Snape. Maybe that's why I am searching for answers I will never find (that's why I'm bothering you here ;-)) I wish I could talk to her, what of course will never happen. I wan't her to write another book in which Snape is getting a new chance. I think that would bring peace to many fans...

I don't think you're bothering anyone here! :p **hugs**

Oh trust me, I absolutely appreciate the sense of loss. I absolutely do. But really, when you write, if you want to be true to your characters, and to yourself, you have to write how you feel. If it's that character's time to go, you as a writer know, you have to do it, even knowing how much other people love that character.

A couple of years ago I was publishing a story online for a group I belonged to, and much to my surprise, it became quite popular. I reached a point where one of the most well loved of my characters had to die, and I couldn't do it. It was the next step in his evolution, he had to die, but I personally could not push myself to do it. So I stopped the story right where it was and explained to everyone that I had begun working on the rough draft for the actual novelization they had been urging me to write. It wasn't a lie, I had finally decided to publish to print, but it'll never happen. And it's a personal tragedy, because that story was the greatest thing I've ever written, that I'll ever write, and it'll never be finished, never see print, simply because I can't kill that cat. Even sitting here right now thinking about it, I cry.

I can imagine how hard it was for JK to kill the characters that are so loved. She did such a beautiful thing, giving life to these virtual people, and that we love them so much is a credit to her talent. I understand your searching for answers, because I went through that too, especially with Fred.

In my Alternate Reality, Fred's alive and with George at their shop, Remus and Tonks are alive and raising Teddy in a safer, happier world, and Severus Snape is alive and well and running his own apothecary shop in Cornwall. ;) :))

As LadyNottingham is fond of saying, that's why we have fanfiction. It's how we find our own peace. <3

Yes, as a writer I can understand it. Even when I'm writing for myself (who will read a book from a nobody?).
Maybe one day the time will come when I can understand Jo's decisions...
:)

snapeinmymind, you are a somebody! Every writer started out as an unknown. And look at some of those "unknowns"!

Bram Stoker, Mary Wollstonecraft Shelley, Sir Arthur Conan Doyle, Howard Phillips Lovecraft, Edgar Allan Poe, John Ronald Reuel Tolkien, Roald Dahl, A. A. Milne, Maurice Sendak, C. S. Lewis, Lewis Carroll, Edgar Rice Burroughs, Ray Bradburry, Agatha Christie, Isaac Asimov, Arthur C. Clarke, Stephen King, Anne Rice, Clive Barker, Douglas Adams and Joanne Kathleen Rowling.

I give you that list because those authors all started out as unknowns, and every one of these people have impacted or affected my life in some way. I simply can not imagine my life without Dracula or Frankenstein's Creation, Sherlock Holmes, Willie Wonka, Eeyore, The Mad Hatter, Hercule Poirot, Lestat, Peloquin, Zaphod Beeblebrox, and especially Severus Snape, Sirius Black, and Remus Lupin. I promise you, I wouldn't be sitting here right now if Professor Tolkien had never committed the History of Middle-Earth to paper. And I don't know that Professor Snape would mean quite as much to me if not for Agatha Christie, that word-witch extraordinaire. She was my first Potions Master, you see.

You know how Stephen King got started? Writing stories for magazines on a defective word processor. And now look at him...

I used to think that no one would want to read anything I had to write. Some wonderful people over the last few years have proved to me otherwise. So don't cheat yourself...somebody will want to read your books.

Dumbledore was very cunning should of been a Slytherin but he was selfish also he knew what to do but kept it to himself he like to play with the heart strings of many charectors.

Yes, but not because of the Horcruxes. I agree with his decision about not telling Snape about them. He didn't as he put it want to "put all his eggs in one basket", meaning that if for some unforeseen reason Voldemort found out about Snape's true role, then all would be lost. It would tactically have been a very bad idea to have someone so easily accessible to Voldemort holding all of the Order's major secrets. What I disagree with is Dumbledore's machinations involving the Elder Wand. He practically set it up so Voldemort would kill Snape for the wand. He sent Snape off into a dangerous mission and withheld information that the enemy already knew that would certainly have saved Snape's life. The proof that Dumbledore didn't tell Snape is evidenced by the fact that had Snape known about the wand then he would have spelt out that information plainly to Harry in his memories- it was too important a piece of information for Snape to have kept it to himself by that stage.