Những nàng công chúa Disney Most Feminist DP Movie Countdown! ngày 6: Pick the LEAST Feminist! (Elimination based on comments)

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25 fans picked:
Công chúa tóc mây
   48%
Pocahontas
   28%
Mulan
   24%
 Jessikaroo posted hơn một năm qua
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17 comments

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Jessikaroo picked Mulan:
10. Cinderella
9. Aladdin
8. Snow White and the Seven Dwarfs
7. Princess and the Frog
6. The Little Mermaid
5. Sleeping Beauty
4. Beauty and the Beast
3. ?

While Mulan is a very good character, her saving China is not feminist. Plus the rest of the movie and the majority of its characters are all basically promoting gender inequality, from the highly sexists songs, "Honour To Us All" and "A Girl Worth Fighting For," to the sexist attitudes from many of the characters. Mulan should leave for similar reasons PatF left.
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rhythmicmagic picked Pocahontas:
I just find the other two more feminist. Also, the whole point of the sexist songs was that that was the climate she was living in and how stupid it was. I agree that it is more about gender inequality than gender equality, but while I don't think that is as good as showing gender equality, we do see Mulan as a successful and admired character in spite of- and even because of- how against the tradition she was. Also, Mulan was the first DP movie in which the romance was neither the central nor a main driving factor of the plot, which is big. I see it following more of the PIXAR political movie structure- you can see my comment on Swanpride's article. Also John Smith can get to me here.
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Swanpride picked Pocahontas:
The whole point of the sexist songs in Mulan is to show the situation she lives in AND showing how wrong this attitude is....especially when Shang sings "I'll make a man out of you" directly into Mulan's face. Mulan as a movie is about showing gender inequality critical - Tangled doesn't mention the problem at all, but the whole movie shows gender equality, especially in the relationship, making Rapunzel the only Princess who eventually becomes regent. And yes, Pocahontas is somewhat accepted as "wise" too, but for her, it's only possible because Kokoum practically died and she gives up her love. And yes, that's somewhat empowering, but it also plays into the idea that it isn't possible for a woman to be successful and married. Nevermind that the idea that a woman needs a strong man to protect her is never refuted in the whole movie.
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BKG201 picked Pocahontas:
I agree
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anjastt9 picked Công chúa tóc mây:
I picked Tangled because I just thought it was less feminist in comparison to the other two films. Don't get me wrong, I think Tangled showed feminism, but not as much as the other two in my opinion.

Also, Swanpride I disagree with you about Pocahontas. She becomes accepted as a wise woman because she diplomatically prevented an ensuing bloodbath between between the Natives and the settlers, not because she gives up her love. Not only that, but she made them realize how rash and irrational both sides were acting due to their ignorance and hatred. :)
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Swanpride picked Pocahontas:
Yes, but if she would chose John, she wouldn't get such a respected position. (And knowing what the settlers did to the native americans later on, a bloodbath might have been the better option, so even her wisdom is somewhat questionable). Plus, Pocahontas herself isn't in a position of power...all the power she has is the one her father allows her to have. If he doesn't suddenly decide that she is wise, she is powerless. And not once in the whole movie this system is questioned.
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Swanpride picked Pocahontas:
And why is Tangled less feminist?
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Popcornfan picked Công chúa tóc mây:
Already stated why
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anjastt9 picked Công chúa tóc mây:
I disagree, I think her choosing to stay with her people just solidified her wisdom, I don't think they would have thought any less of her wisdom if she chose to go with John. Even her father tells her she can choose her own path, that kind of indicates that he realizes she should be allowed to do what she desires rather than conform to his expectations of her like at the beginning of the movie. She opened his mind in more ways than one. Furthermore, yes even though she was powerless against Powhatan, what she told him was very thought provoking and made him second guess his actions. If she hadn't intervened John would have been killed and a war would have ensued.

I'd also like to point out that Pocahontas wasn't the only female character that was portrayed as wise and admirable in the film. Grandmother Willow shared the same open minded thoughts as she did, and she was also the only other entity besides John that she could truly confide in. Another person is Pocahontas' deceased mother, whose spirit is represented symbolically by the wind and colored leaves. Chief Powhatan reveals that her mother was the person that everyone sought out for advice when she was alive. Notice how her spirit guides Pocahontas and helps her make decisions when she isn't sure of herself.

Also, what did the settlers do to the Natives later on? Do you mean in the film or in history? Because Pocahontas the film doesn't follow history, and it wasn't the movie's intention to be historically accurate either. Plus, a bloodbath wouldn't have been the better option because it goes against the themes and messages that the film was trying to convey. Besides, Pocahontas wasn't a vindictive or vengeful person either, and she's sort of a pacifist. She shows that you don't need to engage in war to get a point across, which in my opinion shows that she is a person of strong character. It seemed that she didn't subscribe to the notion of "an eye for an eye" and is evidenced by the fact that she forgave Thomas.

Regarding Tangled, I only thought that in comparison to Mulan and Pocahontas it felt less feminist. One of the main themes about Mulan is how women should have the same value as men. The movie addresses sexism directly, and shows that Mulan, who even though is a woman, played an imperative part in saving her country. She gained respect and changed the perceptions of the other character's views about women as well. Moreover, even though Pocahontas doesn't directly touch upon sexism since that wasn't the theme of the film, Pocahontas does make a big difference for the impending conflict for the reasons that I stated in above and in my previous comments.
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Swanpride picked Pocahontas:
Grandmother willow is a tree, though, not a person. And the thing with Pocahontas wisdom is that it doesn't consider far reaching consequences. Which is the reason the movie fails - the decision to keep peace is based on the wish that Pocahontas and John can stay together, it's an utterly selfish motivation. Considering that the movie starts out with the warriors coming from war, it's not really made clear why this war, against people who actually entered their territory, is suddenly unwise - I'm not for war in general, but why would the warrior suddenly see it this way, especially since Pocahontas only argument is "I'm in love". How about "we will all die otherwise!"?
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I think Tangled, because the main character of the movie (Rapunzel) looks more feminine than Pocahontas and Mulan. I think Pocahontas and Mulan is a tomboy girl
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Swanpride picked Pocahontas:
Since when is looking feminine anti-feminist? If anything, it's a plus for Tangled, because it avoids the "woman have to become more manly to be respected" clichee.
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anjastt9 picked Công chúa tóc mây:
Swanpride, that wasn't the sole reason why she wanted to bring peace between the two sides. Yes, it was one of the reasons, but Pocahontas also tells him to "look around you, this is where the path of fear and hatred have brought us." She was right, the two sides were driven mainly by fear and hatred. The irony is that both sides thought the other were just a bunch of cold heartless savages, but the thing is they were both acting equally as savage by calling each other derogatory names and singing about destroying the other race. Pocahontas made them realize that both sides were acting like the "savages" that they hated so much. Furthermore, when she revealed to them that she was in love with John, she essentially also humanized both races. Both sides were so ignorant that they didn't even believe the other could experience emotions because they thought they were "barely even human." When she professed her love, they realized that they were wrong. After all, if they were all just empty killers, then how could an Englishman and a Native woman fall in love with each other, and even risk death for one another. Their love brought the two worlds together.

I'd like to add that the reason why she couldn't go with John to England is because she was the peace maker between the two sides, and the two sides still had a lot to learn about each other as you can see by the way they still held on to their weapons and weren't interacting. If she went with John and left Virginia, who knows what would have happened between the Natives and the settlers? Since they couldn't fully communicate with one another, there could have been a tragic event because of a misunderstanding. Pocahontas would have felt very guilty if that happened, so she had to make a painful choice and give up her lover. That to me shows that she did indeed think about the consequences and wasn't selfish. She was very much in love with John, and that shows in the song If I Never Knew You, so giving up someone who meant so much to her for the sake of the situation was a testament to how selfless she became in my opinion.

The war they had with the Messawomecks wasn't because of prejudice. Also, in this movie the main reason why the Natives and the settlers wanted to annihilate each other is because they were prejudiced and scared of one another . Throughout the movie, both sides make derogatory comments about the other, and made the other seem blood thirsty. For example, when John tries to convince the settlers that they're not savages, the settlers seem genuinely interested in learning about them but then Ratcliffe interrupts and says "they don't want to feed us you ninnies, they want to kill us. All of us!" This made the settlers scared and reluctant to actually get to know the Natives. You have to keep in mind, that in this movie this was the first time the Native Americans had ever seen English people and vice versa, so they didn't know anything about each other and every time they could have learned more about each other, it was hindered by their fear. That also ties in to one of the movie's themes, which is to know someone before you judge them.
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Swanpride picked Pocahontas:
And what about this is particular feminist? See, Rapunzel has her own dreams and fulfills her big dream before declaring Flynn "her new dream". Pocahantos decision is for 90% of the movie basically between two men. A decision she never really makes, because Kokoum dies before she can take a stand. Yeah, at the very end she makes the one decision which is motivated by "this man or the other", which is the reason I put this movie over The Little Mermaid and the like, but it's too little to late if you compare it to Tangled, which demonstrate an equal relationship and the story about a woman taking control of her life, and Mulan, which actively takes a stand against gender predjuices.
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anjastt9 picked Công chúa tóc mây:
The thing is Pocahontas also has her own dreams, and she doesn't want to be tied down succumb to other people's expectations of her. She wants to be herself instead of conforming to the "steady" lifestyle, so to speak, and its is supported by the song Just Around the Riverbend. Also, even though she doesn't explicitly state that she doesn't want to marry Kocoum, her decision can be inferred by her actions and comments about him. Kocoum was too serious for her free spirited nature and adventurous nature, and he didn't seem to have an ounce of playfulness or humor judging by the way he sternly ignored the children that were trying to play with him, which wouldn't sit well with Pocahontas since she did have a playful side to her. She follows her heart and doesn't want to be stuck in an arranged loveless marriage, in order to be in control of her own life.

Furthermore, I don't understand when you say that her decision at the end was motivated by "this man or the other." Could you elaborate what you mean by that? Moreover, in all honesty neither Pocahontas or Tangled are truly feminist films. Mulan is the only one that is, since that is after all the primary focus of the film and is even the only one that addresses or references gender inequality.
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Swanpride picked Pocahontas:
Sorry, there is a "not" missing in the sentences...her last decision is the only one not motivated by man.
"Just around the riverbend" annoys me a little bit, because it basically says that Pocontas wants something different (without ever specifying what), but even though she feels that way, she never undertakes any steps to realize this dream.
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anjastt9 picked Công chúa tóc mây:
Just Around the Riverbend shows that she just wants adventure and doesn't want to be forced to settle down, also it shows towards the end of the song that she wants to find out what was the significance of the dream she had of the "spinning arrow."
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