But that doesn't mean I don't support the troops. Having grown up with them, I have nothing but the deepest respect for our Armed Forces, especially marines.
But that's the problem, TweenaCat. We basically leveled their society. Unfortunately, as much as I loathe the war, I don't think we should just leave right now.
Course, then again, "rebuilding Iraq" is going worse than the war.
We've been a free people for 230+ years & people can hand all the forged works they can to try telling me it's about oil, money, etc. NOPE. It's about staying a free people in this country. I know that if we were to haul our troops out of there that the terrorists such as Al-Qaeda, Hezzbollah, etc. will come over here & we'd be dead ducks for sure!
Blaming Bush is irrelevant and useless. And to think people are tkaing the 9/11 Disaster so casually now & thinking it's 'an inside job' makes me furious! We were attacked, for God's sake!!
We lost thousands of lives, loved ones, etc. in that Tragedy!!
And now people are saying it's wrong to defend ourselves?! Has everyone lost their minds?!
I don't like war myself, but it is, unfortunately, a necessary evil in this world. We're winning over there!
Forged documents brought up by those Democrats will not make me change my mind, either. Besides, it's not about politics over there, it's about fighting for freedom. 'Nuff said...
To be honest, I have no idea anymore what the War in Iraq was about, I only know that it was poorly executed.
Living overseas, I saw the anti-American sentiment rise after the war officially started, not decrease. If you think it's fighting terrorism, you're wrong. What we need is more focus on border security, at home. There are terrorist cells all over the Middle East, all over the world in fact-- particularly Al Quaeda in Saudi Arabia. You can't call it a "War on Terror" if you're only focusing on one country, and not even the terrorist cells in said country, but on it's (albeit bad) government.
I don't believe those conspiracy theories on 9/11. The only way I think the government is at fault is negligence. America was attacked that day, but not by the people we're fighting in Iraq.
I'll say more later on the subject. I have to go watch a movie with my friend.
They are in Iraq, but not just in Iraq. They're all over the Middle East & I do have to agree they're in many parts of the world. But they're being hunted down & it will take YEARS to do that. My brother stated, and I agree with him, that we may not see the end of this in our lifetime. It can go on forever, whether we like it or not. Our government IS a little negligent on a lot of things & we're needing to do a lot of work now.
Anti-American Sentiment has been happening for eons and it does not surprise me. There just was not a lot of exposure decades ago until the media starting becoming generally widespread!
I can agree to a degree that the war was poorly executed but now the military is trying to correct it, and this successful Troop Surge did a lot. I think all we can do is just wait to see what happens next. Nothing we can do about it, and (excuse my language, 'cause I hate cussing) bitchin', pissin', and moanin' about it won't make it better.
Looks like you & I do share SOME ideas on this subject.
Anti-American sentiment has been happening for a long time for... some good reason. When it comes to foreign affairs, we haven't quite played our cards right. (We tend to poke our nose in places that don't ask for our help, and then ignore the places that do ask for our help). I'm just saying the war aggravated it, not decreased it, if anything making itself more of a target than ever before. This is the main reason that I don't see the war in Iraq as part of a War on Terror.
And terrorists aren't just in the Middle East. Terrorism is a global event, not strictly something that is Arab. What about Columbian terrorist cells? Or our home grown cells in our own country? Al Quaeda cells in Saudi Arabia? I think those are equally as threatening, particularly if our efforts (and troops) are focussed in the middle east fighting against insurgents whose only reason for fighting back is because they didn't want Americans there in the first place.
I miss when Clinton used to meet with Arafat and Rabin and try and peacefully resolve conflict in the Middle East, as opposed to aggravating it.
It's not because of the twin towers we all know that Bin Laden was reposnible for that but after searching for him for the shortest time Bush forgets about him and switches his focus on Sadaam Hussein just to make people forget about Bin Laden (clearly something going on there)
Clearly this war is about money and oil since Bush thinks that he should be the leader of the world and that every country should be the same as the united states. He bases his political capaign on fear and terorrism when all he wants is power
and YES you were attacked but what happened to Bin Laden?? they never looked for him anymore. And war is definitly not a solution when all he did in Iraq and other countries was kill millions of innocent people who have nothing to do with anything.
9/11 was one of the most horryfing events in the history of the world but do you know how many people die in Iraq every day?? do you know how many bombs kill people over there??? its definitly more than 9/11 and no one makes a big deal about people dying in Iraq but 9/11 was the worst thing ever. DONT GET ME WRONG 9/11 was horrible but things like that happen in Iraq everyday and no one gives it as much importance as the twin tower. and the war there if anything made thigs worse for the people now its obviously too late to go back, but what im saying is that it should have never started because it was for the wrong reasons (nothing to do with 9/11)
solsis, on the contrary, that IS WHY the war was started, believe it or not. Most of the media turn it around before they broadcast stuff & the Drive-Bys just love leaving it one-sided. So to 'try' finding reasons this war should not have started is like trying to scoop water with a fork.
If the war did start because of the terrorist attack on 9/11 then what happened with Bin Laden, why was he able to escape? How come they can't find him? He was reposible for what happened to thw twin towers and he was responsible for so many people dying that day...and its been 6 years and what?? Its Iraq, Sadaam Hussein...people in the united states are not as affected by this war as the people in Iraq who lost their houese, their families, and much more
Hey hey hey, let's not do name-calling in here! We want intellectual discussion, but if you're just gonna say things like that then it'll just descend into yelling and more name-calling.
I cannot belive how many innocent lives are gone as a cause of such a pointless war. I agree that September 11th was a horrible attack, but now times that by 100 and that is what happened to Iraq because of this war. Saying that the reason for this war was September 11th makes absolutely no sense. The terrorist behind that attack was Bin Laden... So, if so many people and places were destroyed because of him you would think they would have found him already!
But no. Yes, Saddam Hussein was a terrible leader I agree, but this is a point appart. Bush based his whole campaign on fear and the only thing he accomplished with the war was turning people's attention to Iraq and making people forget all about Bin Laden. The one actually responsible for the terrorist attack.
I can't imagine how anyone could support something as cruel and pointless as this. Just for one second, imagine living in Iraq. You have done nothing wrong but all of a sudden people from the other end of the world start killing your loved ones, destroying your homes, leaving you with nothing. This is what happened and is still happening in Iraq.
September 11th is such a horrible memory for Americans, so why would you wish that kind of pain (and much more) on others who are jsut as innocent as you?
2,974 people died in September 11th, which is horrible beyond words... more than 601,000 Iraqis have died and if this doesn't stop soon they will continue to die. The worst part of this is, that even when it does end, the Iraqis are still left with nothing. Their whole country has been destroyed.
... No motif would be good enough, but this is just plain pathetic. I can't believe we live in a world where something like this would happen.
i agree because without it Saddam wouldn't be dead he is the most evil person he would kill any iraqi anytime for any reason or for no reason at all he released a chemical weapon on a part of iraq he also caused the Iranian Iraqi war ( first gulf war ) although its not supposed to be named like that because non of them are from GCC countries and hopefully never will be , he also invaded kuwait killed took hostages threw oil in our sea btw our sea now is pollutioned 40 times more thn the other seas ,and he also burned the oil field which took a year to put it down and that effacts the people untill now by causing dsieases in the Respiratory system
well you're right but i cant change my mind because i suffered and all kuwait suffered 16 year ago from him , and since the beginning of kuwait iraq attempted to invade kuwait but no one actually went in the middle except saddam but believe me the relationship between kuwait and iraq will never be like the relationship between kuwait and other country , and i dont think you can blame me for hating them :)
well i don't support the war, in a completely hippie sort of way.
as a sidenote, i really wish people would stop being so prejudiced against so-called hippies. a hippie is not simply someone who smokes a lot of pot and engages in promiscuous sex. it's about speaking out against what's wrong in the world, in an intelligent, peaceful, and politically charged way.. and, gee, that sounds a lot like what we do here. sigh.
back to the war - even if you strip away the lies, the conjecture, the conspiracy theories and media bias you still have the simple fact that America invaded a sovereign nation without just cause. you can spout off about promoting freedom and democracy all you want, but that isn't justification for going to war. it's also completely narrow-minded and not to mention arrogant. i swear the majority of Americans wouldn't understand the term "cultural relativism" if you bashed them over the head with it. and in any case the situation in Iraq is so far from anything resembling "freedom" it would be laughable if it weren't so awful.
no matter how evil Saddam may have been, the US is NOT the goddamn world police. i'm not even going to get into the fact that it's a complete &*$^#%@ hypocrisy to use human rights violation as an excuse for continuing the war when places like Saudi Arabia and China are way further up on the list and enjoy cushy economic ties with the States.. to put it lightly. or that places like the Congo and the Sudan are desperately in need of help, a fact that the US continues to ignore. and then there's Abu Ghraib and Guantanamo Bay...
as an outsider, i remember watching news feeds right after 9/11 and being dumbstruck as to why not a single person was asking "why exactly did this happen?". i don't mean "how could they think they could get away with this?" or "why do they hate us?" which is all i remember hearing about. no one bothered to think that maybe America's virtually non-existant foreign aid program might have been a contributing factor, or it's involvement in proxy wars and funding of various terrorist cells in the Middle East during the Cold War.. or the fact that the US backed Saddam Hussein against Khomeini in the 80s? yes, 9/11 was terrible, but the only way it's related to the Iraq War is as a half-assed cover up for something that was set in motion decades before it ever happened.
I used to be on the fence with this too, but now, I think we've got enough troubles over here, and spending our money on Iraq won't solve any of our problems.
i'm beginning to think that major dork is a mahjor idiot!! - you are ridiculous! u don't actaully no what terrismm i sor what the iraq war is!
terrorism is them fighting back because they no they are alot less powerful polictaly economically and miliarly(if that's a word :p) and thus they can only do these secret attacks in a vain hope that we will stop exploiting thier country. Terrorism isn't about religion or mean arbabs wanting to blow u up...
and the iraq war isn't about stopping that it's about getting fucking oil okay??
GOD it makes me angry
First of all let me ask u all: who created the terrorist groups in Pakistan and Afghanistan?
let me tell u, its the CIA with the help of the Saudis who did it.
So America kinda shot itself in its legs by creating them,we all saw what happened to the American people at nine eleven. I think Americana are very nice people in general, but they should open their eyes a bit and see how their troops in Iraq are destroying that once glorious country. What I'm tying to say is that the troops there should sort themselves out and leave.
I agree with you all in the point that Saddam was evil, but Saddam is now dead.So what's the point in staying?
Try to think like this: armies from all over the western world come in your country. These armies shoot your friends, your familie, and your neighbours. These armies claim that they wanna help you, but all you see is destruction and death.
I would feel angry, because do we ever see a story of the oppisites?
There are actually women in Iraq, who are paid to cry suddenly for the camera!
Although I hate that we're there, we just can't leave, we have to make Iraq peacful and in order before we take off.
I'm definatley not for all the money we're spending, and our own family there (my cousin is currently serving in the air force in afganistan...) but again we can't just leave Iraq in the current condition it's in now.
I hope Iraq can quickly change for the better and we can pull our troops out, but I'm not for not finishing what we start.
tiz may i ask you what exactly, you think America is achieving there...? i'm not being rude or a bitch- I juts want to know what you belive the reason is behind the wr in iraq?
I think at first, after 9/11 Bush and the people of America wanted to take action, I mean who wouldn't after so many people died.. I'm not sure if going to war with Iraq was the best idea however.
sophieDP.. I think that now that America is in Iraq they are trying to give Iraq a good government, and give Iraqi people have a "stable" or "normal" every day life... I think what we want to accomplish is a better system for everyone in Iraq, and yes I agree right now we're not achieving too much right now, but we are helping education, and trying to help...
The major reason why I support the war is to say that I don't believe America should back down now, and that we should stay in Iraq until we leave Iraq in a good place.. I don't necissarly agree with everything that Bush is saying, or everything that is going on there.
Okay that's nice for you... But please don't listen to the media!! By now you should be aware that the war is about oil this is not an opion it is now considered a fact!! Of course the gouvernement is not gonna say that openly... but please is read some more contraversiam stuff so you can actual open your mind and understand that whjat politians say is not always the truth - pretexts for war have always been part of history!
I dunno I do and I don't but Iraq really needs us there because of all of the roadside bombings and other terrorist activity. In my school in world history we are reading these schoolastic booklets and there were interviews with Iraq's youth. And they say that they are scared to even leave their homes and go to school because of the terrorists and our solders allow them to feel safe.
I support the troops and wish they could all come home but the war itself has been a waste of time and live's. Things will never change in Iraq coz its people dont seem to wont to change.
Well I am writing again because I am still a little ircked that you are questioning our freedom. I would like to see you go live in Iraq for just one week, and then answer your own question, "what freedom?" You are taking alot of stuff for granted if you question our freedom. If you weren't free, you wouldn't be on the internet talking bad about our goverment. You wouldn't have the right to your own opinion. Also being that you are a woman, if you didn't have freedom you wouldn't have very many rights at all. I am a proud American, I am proud of our Troops, I am not a Bush supporter, but no matter who was in office we would still be in War!! We are a strong country, and we believe in fighting for freedom and against Terrorist! Next time you see an American Flag flying maybe you should stop and think, What Freedom?
It is true that the US has more freedoms than other countries, like Burma, or Saudi for extreme examples. But the US is only under the illusion that we are entirely free. The US is not the freest country by far.
I lived in Cairo, Egypt for four years, a nation ruled by an authoritarian president who-- since he is good chums with our Commander in Chief-- has received very little criticism from the US for silencing anyone who wants to run against him in the elections. Regardless, the Egyptians still have plenty of freedoms that US citizens have. While their censorship laws are a bit stricter, they are mainly in relation to sexual situations in film. Even so, Egypt is the Hollywood of the Middle East, and have plenty of their own risque movies, despite their Muslim culture. If you ask an Egyptian if you think he is free, he will say, "No, I'm not. They claim we live in a democracy and we don't. Bush praises Mubarak and then completely ignores how he squashes his competition." But the mere FACT that he is allowed to say that shows that he at least can. And they HAVE said that. I have spoken to plenty of locals on the subject. They're annoyed at the US for its hypocrisy.
Please tell me: If Bush or someone of his ilk WAS NOT in office during 9/11 or the months that came after it, do you STILL think we'd be at war IN IRAQ? Iraq has nothing to do with 9/11.
I have grown up around marines. I adore them. I have gone to two marine balls celebrating their history, and I have been proud of them. I am not against our troops. I support them. I want them safe. 2,973 died on September 11th. Over 3,000 have died in Iraq since then. I don't want that number to rise. We are NOT fighting terrorist cells, and even if we were-- why Al Qaeda? Why is that group the buzz word, considering if we wanted to fight terror, we could have started with home grown cells, with South American terrorist groups, or with the oppression of our own government. What makes Iraq so special, when oppression occurs in Saudi, and there are Al Qaeda cells there as well. We don't go into Saudi because they're our allies. We are a bully. Whoever isn't friends with us, regardless of the plethora of human rights they have committed, is our enemies. Israel, Saudi Arabia, Egypt-- all of them are committing grave human rights crimes, but we don't care one lick because they give us money/support/oil.
To be fair, I loathe Mubarak. But I would rather live in Egypt than the USA because at least the people know what's going on. When you're president for 25 years and no one has voted for you in 26, it's pretty obvious how you got your job.
I think the US is more free than many other countries but there's also plenty of restriction of freedom and civil rights and that comes to a big part from the so called "War on Terror".
I think the US is less free because of the war. It is not "defending" its freedom in Iraq. Iraq was never a danger for the freedom in the US.
The war is killing thousands and thousands of people and costing billions of dollar that could have been used in so many ways to promote peace and freedom both in the US and in other countries.
Okay in reply...If it's so much better in Egypt, go there.
Do your homework, it was about our freedom of life. They posed a threat towards us. Iraq was giving financial support to suicide bombers. I don't know about you, but I would like to know I can go to work or go on Vacation and not worry about these idiots killing themselves and killing me while there doing it. I don't care who was in office, we were going to war. If you can't support your country, I don't think our country should support you. You talk so wonderfully about our troops, you don't deserve thier protection. This is America the brave and the Free. You can have your opinion I can have mine. The big difference between you and I is I honor my country. I will wave my flag proudly.
I support the war...
My brother is going over there in a couple weeks and I believe that he is going over there and risking his life for a reason. I dont think it mattered who was the president on 9/11, when we got hit the USA was going to do something about it. We arent just going to sit around and let innocent poeple get killed by them and do nothing about it!!
Iraq wasn't responsible for 9/11. So why go to Iraq to war, but keep hugging for example Saudi Arabia where most of the 9/11 terrorists actually came from?
And what do you think the people in Iraq think? Ten thousands of them were killed in the war. Nobody counts their exact number!
But they could say "The US attacked us. The US killed XXX,XXX of our people."
How do you think this will help in stopping terrorist organizations? Creating hate is what they want.
Btw, how is the US so free if you are told to "go to Egypt" if you voice your opinion? Or that one doesn't "deserve the protection" of the troops? This with-us-or-against-us attitude isn't a characteristic of a free country.
I love it when people tell me to get out of the US if I don't like its government because my reply is always "I intend to, as soon as I finish my degree." I would adore living in Egypt.
Anyone who has seen "link"-- or for a more historical context, know anything about how Hitler link know that you can convince a nation of pretty much anything.
The war in Iraq has NOTHING to do with September 11, or Al Qaeda. In the past seven years, more Americans have died from heart attacks than terrorist attacks. It was the same way BEFORE 9/11. The Bush administration is using fear in order to control the masses. They get more mileage out of 9/11 than Rudy Guilliani.
Believe me-- the War in Iraq is exacerbating the conflict, not helping. The US reputation in the Middle East has plummeted. I have seen this first hand. It's a much different perspective, on the outside looking in.
You accuse me of "not supporting my country," I assume that means you think I'm not being patriotic as well. Patriotism IS questioning the government. Patriotism is wanting what is best for your country and the world. You're right. You are completely allowed to voice your opinion. This is a friendly discussion, and as you underlined, a free country (comparatively). Just because I am the voice of dissent suddenly means I am not deserving of the liberties of this nation?
Last I checked, we still have most of our free speech ("most" as it-- among other liberties-- has been compromised by the Patriot Act). I thought we were just exchanging ideas here. I never said I didn't want what was best for America. I just want what's best for the rest of the world too.
I am not trying to sound Like I want you to leave the country, I just feel like It is best to honor your country not to degrade it. This is a debate I spoke my opinions. I can not imagine wanting to leave this wonderful country, but as you made it clear, you don't think America is wonderful. Honestly "the rest of the world" could care less about me, why should I worry about them. I really honestly wish I could buy only made in America, and not depend on other countries. The resources just aren't great. I am really not trying to be mean when I said go to Egypt, I just don't understand if it's so much better why are you here? Is it because our "awful goverment" is helping you pay for your degree? I know that is one great thing about the US it helps millions get an education every year. We expect suport from our goverment, shouldn't we support them?
Too bad you can't buy American oil-- Oh, wait, you can! But you'll have to destroy Alaska to get to it.
I apologize for the biting sarcasm.
The reason I think we should care about the rest of the world is because we certainly pretend to. I mean, look how we've stuck our nose into Iraq trying to spread democracy. Manifest destiny is bull. And America is far from self-reliant, and thank God for that. If it was, there would be no economy. There would be no America come to that, without the help of fine folks like the French.
America has plenty of high points. But as the international community has tried to point out to American tourists, they are pointlessly arrogant. When I criticize the government and its policies, I am doing just that: Patriotically standing up for what's best for my country. Invading Iraq is NOT what was best for our country, least of all after 9/11. We have lost good soldiers to an ambiguous cause hiding behind the political buzz words of "The War on Terror." What terror? Saddam Hussein's terror? We want to free his people? What about the Sudanese? What about the Burmese? Why Iraq? It's not because of Al Qaeda. I'll tell you, if it was, this war would have been over after Tora Bora.
And yes, the government is, indirectly, paying for my education, but only because they pay my Dad's salary. Before you call me a hypocrite, my Dad is a diplomat, smoothing over relations in nations that are getting irritated with us. And I want to improve the government. It's not like I'm anti-American, it's just the opposite. And I really don't see the connection between the war in Iraq and AMERICAN freedom. Freedom to do what, exactly? People are still scared to go on airplanes. People are still afraid of terror attacks. Why? Because Bush and co make us that way with their propoganda. I mean, were we any LESS free before 9/11? What's that word even MEAN, freedom? Freedom from oppression? From fear? From danger? Because we aren't free of oppression or danger, as a result of the War on Terror, anyway, and only you can decide to be free of fear. Freedom to be who we want? Freedom to say what we please? To live as we please? To criticize our government? Because I thought we had all of those freedoms before the war in Iraq.
Rather than regurgitating Fox news phrases like "fighting for our freedom," ask yourselves what exactly they mean by that. Al Qaeda wasn't even a blip on the American radar until 9/11. And there are cells all over the middle east, all over the world in fact, so eradicating them in Iraq-- if we even have-- will not guarantee our "freedom" from them.
Listen. We are a global community. I care deeply about the rest of the world because it's made up with people like you and me. Most of whom are worse off. I care about the Sudanese refugees, the Palestinians whose homes are getting destroyed by US-made tanks, and the Burmese people whose voices have been stripped from them from their government. There are people who need our help, but do you know why the only ones helping them are humanitarians and volunteer organizations? Because there is no political gain. Pure and simple.
There are a lot of things about America that I like. Starbucks. Baseball. Network television. Their (higher) education system (their lower education could use some work). But our government, at this place in time, is not one of them. I love the American person, not necessarily the American people, because it's my experience that a person is smart and people are ridiculously stupid. I suppose it's the mob mentality. But I do love the American person.
We are not the world police. And even if we were, we what right did we have-- without the support of the UN, without the support of most of the global community-- to traipse into a sovereign nation, corrupted or not, and dethrone their dictator? How come we haven't dethroned the king of Saudi yet? He's oppressive to his people. There are Al Qaeda cells in his nation, too. In fact, Al Qaeda loves it there, because they know that the US wouldn't dare raise its hand against its allies.
It has nothing to do with freedom, Iraqi or otherwise. It has to do with politics and propaganda. This is not a link.
Oh bloody hell. I have a whole freakin lot to say here, but not the time at the moment... so I'll it for now at this:
Carly is correct on most points. Do your damned homework. The truth of everything is alllll over the damned internet. A few clicks and you will see how the USA is ranked on everything under the sun - and it ain't number 1. Not even on the Democracy scales... OR the freedom scales. Open your fucking eyes.
I am so glad you listen to everything on the internet, DRdevience. I am in support of the war, you don't have to get ignorant with me. I know what my opinion is and I know what Cinders is. Why would you come out of no where using horrible language (which totally makes a good point turn bad)like that? Maybe you should try to use some facts rather than The F word.
DrDevience
I don't think that anyone on here has said that the US government was perfect or the best out there, but it definitly isn't the worst one. The US may not have the most freedom but we have a hell of a lot more the a lot of other countries.
I know that I would personally rather live here than anywhere else, and this is where I would want my children raised!!!
" support the war...
My brother is going over there in a couple weeks and I believe that he is going over there and risking his life for a reason. I dont think it mattered who was the president on 9/11, when we got hit the USA was going to do something about it. We arent just going to sit around and let innocent poeple get killed by them and do nothing about it!! " Thats all well and good but i thought thats why we went to war with AFGHANISTAN... Iraq was based on falsified documents stating they had weapons of mass destruction and then a futile attempt to link saddam to Osama, which was later proved false.
All I can say now is this: to the anti-war folks in here - the way you're wanting the peace to happen...........it'll NEVER HAPPEN the way you're wanting it. Stopping the war the way y'all talk about it will backfire horribly. And if that happens, I pray Jesus Christ returns and takes His believers home before it happens! Because it will be U G L Y ! ! !
OK if the war is actually being fight for oil, oil is what makes the US move and if the US stops moving a lot countries in the world will stop too. I know a lot of inocent people are dying but, I repeat, if this war is actually being fight for oil, a lot of people would suffer if the US doesn´t moves. For example, most of the GDP in Mexico comes from the money that illegal immigrants living in America send to their families living here in Mexico. Now imagine if America would stop because the lack of oil all those families that are depending on the money would starve, Mexico will be poorer than it already is, and not just Mexico but other countries too. I know that other types of fuel can be discoered but how long would it take to do that. Maybe there were other ways to get that oil but Bush took that way.
me and a lot of mexicans would love if we didn't have to depend on the US, a lot of people here don't even like the US, (I do like it I think it has good things and bad things like any other country)but that is another subject, I just think the war is pointless really, any war, and I don't think is rlly helping Irak
I supported it to begin with because I felt like we needed to go over there and do something. But I feel like now we should be out of there, and should have been out of there a while ago. I definatly still support the soldiers (I know a few people over there) but I think we need to get the troops out of there ASAP.
lets not forget when 9/11 came around if you would have mainly asked anyone they would have said "yes i am all for it" {almost all, not everyone}.I do want the war to end but that does not mean i am going to go out and be total against the war. I want to come to a close slowly and i do support the soldiers in the middle east
I support the troops, but I do not support illegal wars based on falsified evidence to mislead the American people. It was a lie. Iraq was not a threat to the US, we should have focused our attention on finding bin Laden and the other members of Al Quaeda, the people who were actually responsible for the tragic deaths of all those innocent people.
I am and always will be grateful to the brave men and women who are fighting for their country. But I believe we were sent there under false pretenses (So Bush could get a higher pay check). We should have been focused on the capturing Bin Laden. Instead we gave him time to regroup, making Al-Qaeda even stronger (plus the killing of Iraqi citizens would encourage more to join Al-Qaeda).
And to EMILEE24, The legendary American writer Mark Twain once said "Being a patriot means supporting your country all the time, and your government when it deserves it". Just because we disagree with the government doesn't make us anti-American. Being American, we have the FREEDOM to disagree with our leaders. Other wise we would be a communist country.
let me get this through i dont surrport the war not the troops!!!weve killed sadam husian we did what we had to its time we bring back our siters,brothers,daughters,sons,husbands,and wives.BRING THEM BACK WE MISS THEM!!!!
I agree with you Cinders. How did they mess with America? George Bush accused them of being the ones that crashed into the Twin Towers on those planes. I don't believe it was them. And anyways, war doesn't solve anything. A lot of people have been killed and it's sad. Please everyone this is MY opinion! Feel free to voice yours! :)
I support the troops whole-heartedly. But Iraq, Al Quaeda, and Saddam had nothing to do with 9/11. Iraq did not ask for our help in "fixing" their country and waging war on them is not fixing anything.
And I never, ever understood the whole "weapons of mass destruction" thing. If they had them, wouldn't they have just used them on us? And, since we found out they didn't have any, why did we stay? We invaded and upeneded their country looking for these weapons that we couldn't find . . . and then stayed and shot them?
i dont rlly like the war but my cuzin is fighting for our freedom right now and im proud of him and his buddies. and plus a ton of my relatives have fought in WWII and WWI. also vietam or however you spell it. and there names are written on the wall at City Hall in my hometown. and my great uncle was a sargent (i think) in WWII and he died last year (of old age) and i am very proud of him R.I.P.Clayton Clark:) the only reason i dont like this war is cuz my cuzin was lookin for road bombs and his tank blew up so now he has a metal thing in his leg. he couldve died but thank god he didnt.
Iraq, Iraq, the farce of the first decade of the 21st century.
A tiny comparison I've read in the library last Sunday. I shall dig that reference up ASAP after my exams. Probably a garbled quote but helas:
"Operation Eduring Freedom - Afghanistan was planned in four weeks.
Operation Desert Storm was planned during six months.
Unlike OEF-A, Desert Storm was a success."
The point? The battle of Tora Bora could have been fruitful if it wasn't for the bad planning and some arrogance... Given that the SAS actually almost cornered Bin Laden and was ordered to stand down to let the US Special Forces capture him, in the meantime, dear Usama escaped to much grief.
I apologise continuosly for what would seem like ipse-dixitisms and sarcasm and what will to come.
I'm totally confident that if an equivalent amount of the troops expended on the Iraqi campaign had been devoted to Afghanistan, Usama would be very dead right now... But some personages in the Joint Chiefs of Staff had to execute an all out and pointless assault on Iraq, based on false information regarding WMD's...
...ugh, reading this pick, why do half the Americans out there have to be so goddamn patriotic? All this "Land of the Brave and Free" stuff, and all those catchphrases about "freedom"... It may not be, but I mistake it for hideous arrogance. Disgusting.
You don't have to expressing by overdone catchphrases and flag- waving. No one gives a crap if you think you're country is the "best" , we don't think it is.
I would freely admit that Australia is not the best country out there. Wherever you cone from, why would you claim its the best? That seems to me like arrogance.
Different cultures, I guess. Here it's mostly the racist bogans that shout how great we are, and god forbid you actually own an Australian flag.
Which is not to say we aren't proud. We just don't feel the need to parade it around.
That type of patriotism does more harm than good.
Why does it do harm? Blind patriotism doesn't do anyone any favors, that's true, but a general and genuine love of your country can create bonds between strangers, unite communities, and keep morale up during difficult economic, political or military times - which, let's face it, the US has had a lot of in the past ten years. Besides, it's a genuine love of my country that causes me to constantly question its policies, and the opinions and goals of the politician running for office, and how they see America.
I don't believe that I, as an American, am any better than anyone else just because I am American, nor do I believe my country matters more than any other country, or that it deserves more, or should be more respected by people outside of it. But it does matter more to me than many other countries, because it's my home, in the same way that Seattle matters more to me than Los Angeles of New York, because it's where I live. And it's this love of my home that spurs me to work in my community, make it a better place, and think "globally" and act "locally."
People express this in many different ways. Just because they love their country, and want to be proud of it, doesn't mean they hate everyone else's, or have no criticisms. I should hope you have pride in Australia, and its rich history and culture, and accept it for the black spots on its past and present. Certainly, I'm proud of the United States, with its rich history and culture, and accept it for its black, ugly spots, as I would a family member.
No one's perfect, but pride in your home country - regardless of what that country is - is natural, healthy and socially beneficial. After all, if the Egyptians didn't love their country as much as they did, they wouldn't have cared enough to rip it out of the clutches of a dictator.
You may not think it's better, but I've seen people who do, and they're annoying as heck. This doesn't only apply to the US, although you do seem the most patriotic, but other countries do.
Australia's history is pretty boring, to say the least. Lol.
I've seen the effect the rising feeling of patriotism has on my country. You see, a few years back we voted in a lovely far right-wing chap by the name of John Howard. He was the one that encouraged all this moronic patriotism and "national pride". He also inspired the hating of immigrants and refugees,, and racism spiked during his time. The effects if his era can be felt even today, as people hang Australian flags off their cars and bash Indian students and shout "Stop the boats!!! Australians first! Australia over all!"
What you described sounds more like extremist rightism than patriotism. Politicians always use seemingly good or at the very least innocuous phrases like "patriotism," "family values," "civil rights," etc, to promote their own political agenda.
Mark Twain wrote various things about patriotism, and out of his writings two definitions seemed to emerge - even in his own eyes. Your view of a patriot, which is what I would call blind pride, and my view of the patriot, which I would call critical pride.
Mark Twain on the first kind - your view - of patriotism:
Patriotism is usually the refuge of the scoundrel. He is the man who talks the loudest.
- Education and Citizenship speech, 5/14/1908
Patriot: the person who can holler the loudest without knowing what he is hollering about.
- More Maxims of Mark, Johnson, 1927
Mark Twain on the second kind - my view - of patriotism:
In the beginning of a change the patriot is a scarce man, and brave, and hated and scorned. When his cause succeeds, the timid join him, for then it costs nothing to be a patriot.
- Notebook, 1904
"Patriotism is supporting your country all the time, and your government when it deserves it."
I don't believe that the slogans you say necessarily perpetrate the first form of "patriotism", or as I see it, false patriotism, because it is blind and thoughtless. I do believe that common phrases such as these can remind a soldier serving far from home of his family and his small town. They can remind citizens at home that they all have something in common - regardless of other differences that may exist between them.
I don't think that "The land of the free and home of the brave," is a negative phrase, or promotes a negative feeling. In fact, I believe it is the opposite.
Course, then again, "rebuilding Iraq" is going worse than the war.
Sadam needed to be taken out but why not when Daddy was in charge of the country and selling weapons to Iraq?
Blaming Bush is irrelevant and useless. And to think people are tkaing the 9/11 Disaster so casually now & thinking it's 'an inside job' makes me furious! We were attacked, for God's sake!!
We lost thousands of lives, loved ones, etc. in that Tragedy!!
And now people are saying it's wrong to defend ourselves?! Has everyone lost their minds?!
I don't like war myself, but it is, unfortunately, a necessary evil in this world. We're winning over there!
Forged documents brought up by those Democrats will not make me change my mind, either. Besides, it's not about politics over there, it's about fighting for freedom. 'Nuff said...
Living overseas, I saw the anti-American sentiment rise after the war officially started, not decrease. If you think it's fighting terrorism, you're wrong. What we need is more focus on border security, at home. There are terrorist cells all over the Middle East, all over the world in fact-- particularly Al Quaeda in Saudi Arabia. You can't call it a "War on Terror" if you're only focusing on one country, and not even the terrorist cells in said country, but on it's (albeit bad) government.
I don't believe those conspiracy theories on 9/11. The only way I think the government is at fault is negligence. America was attacked that day, but not by the people we're fighting in Iraq.
I'll say more later on the subject. I have to go watch a movie with my friend.
Anti-American Sentiment has been happening for eons and it does not surprise me. There just was not a lot of exposure decades ago until the media starting becoming generally widespread!
I can agree to a degree that the war was poorly executed but now the military is trying to correct it, and this successful Troop Surge did a lot. I think all we can do is just wait to see what happens next. Nothing we can do about it, and (excuse my language, 'cause I hate cussing) bitchin', pissin', and moanin' about it won't make it better.
Looks like you & I do share SOME ideas on this subject.
And terrorists aren't just in the Middle East. Terrorism is a global event, not strictly something that is Arab. What about Columbian terrorist cells? Or our home grown cells in our own country? Al Quaeda cells in Saudi Arabia? I think those are equally as threatening, particularly if our efforts (and troops) are focussed in the middle east fighting against insurgents whose only reason for fighting back is because they didn't want Americans there in the first place.
I miss when Clinton used to meet with Arafat and Rabin and try and peacefully resolve conflict in the Middle East, as opposed to aggravating it.
Clearly this war is about money and oil since Bush thinks that he should be the leader of the world and that every country should be the same as the united states. He bases his political capaign on fear and terorrism when all he wants is power
and YES you were attacked but what happened to Bin Laden?? they never looked for him anymore. And war is definitly not a solution when all he did in Iraq and other countries was kill millions of innocent people who have nothing to do with anything.
9/11 was one of the most horryfing events in the history of the world but do you know how many people die in Iraq every day?? do you know how many bombs kill people over there??? its definitly more than 9/11 and no one makes a big deal about people dying in Iraq but 9/11 was the worst thing ever. DONT GET ME WRONG 9/11 was horrible but things like that happen in Iraq everyday and no one gives it as much importance as the twin tower. and the war there if anything made thigs worse for the people now its obviously too late to go back, but what im saying is that it should have never started because it was for the wrong reasons (nothing to do with 9/11)
But no. Yes, Saddam Hussein was a terrible leader I agree, but this is a point appart. Bush based his whole campaign on fear and the only thing he accomplished with the war was turning people's attention to Iraq and making people forget all about Bin Laden. The one actually responsible for the terrorist attack.
I can't imagine how anyone could support something as cruel and pointless as this. Just for one second, imagine living in Iraq. You have done nothing wrong but all of a sudden people from the other end of the world start killing your loved ones, destroying your homes, leaving you with nothing. This is what happened and is still happening in Iraq.
September 11th is such a horrible memory for Americans, so why would you wish that kind of pain (and much more) on others who are jsut as innocent as you?
2,974 people died in September 11th, which is horrible beyond words... more than 601,000 Iraqis have died and if this doesn't stop soon they will continue to die. The worst part of this is, that even when it does end, the Iraqis are still left with nothing. Their whole country has been destroyed.
... No motif would be good enough, but this is just plain pathetic. I can't believe we live in a world where something like this would happen.
I would argue more but things are summed up above me pretty well.
BUT we went to this war under false pretenses.
And do you know how many tyrannical governments there are in the world right now? How many other populations are suffering? Why Iraq?
as a sidenote, i really wish people would stop being so prejudiced against so-called hippies. a hippie is not simply someone who smokes a lot of pot and engages in promiscuous sex. it's about speaking out against what's wrong in the world, in an intelligent, peaceful, and politically charged way.. and, gee, that sounds a lot like what we do here. sigh.
back to the war - even if you strip away the lies, the conjecture, the conspiracy theories and media bias you still have the simple fact that America invaded a sovereign nation without just cause. you can spout off about promoting freedom and democracy all you want, but that isn't justification for going to war. it's also completely narrow-minded and not to mention arrogant. i swear the majority of Americans wouldn't understand the term "cultural relativism" if you bashed them over the head with it. and in any case the situation in Iraq is so far from anything resembling "freedom" it would be laughable if it weren't so awful.
no matter how evil Saddam may have been, the US is NOT the goddamn world police. i'm not even going to get into the fact that it's a complete &*$^#%@ hypocrisy to use human rights violation as an excuse for continuing the war when places like Saudi Arabia and China are way further up on the list and enjoy cushy economic ties with the States.. to put it lightly. or that places like the Congo and the Sudan are desperately in need of help, a fact that the US continues to ignore. and then there's Abu Ghraib and Guantanamo Bay...
as an outsider, i remember watching news feeds right after 9/11 and being dumbstruck as to why not a single person was asking "why exactly did this happen?". i don't mean "how could they think they could get away with this?" or "why do they hate us?" which is all i remember hearing about. no one bothered to think that maybe America's virtually non-existant foreign aid program might have been a contributing factor, or it's involvement in proxy wars and funding of various terrorist cells in the Middle East during the Cold War.. or the fact that the US backed Saddam Hussein against Khomeini in the 80s? yes, 9/11 was terrible, but the only way it's related to the Iraq War is as a half-assed cover up for something that was set in motion decades before it ever happened.
terrorism is them fighting back because they no they are alot less powerful polictaly economically and miliarly(if that's a word :p) and thus they can only do these secret attacks in a vain hope that we will stop exploiting thier country. Terrorism isn't about religion or mean arbabs wanting to blow u up...
and the iraq war isn't about stopping that it's about getting fucking oil okay??
GOD it makes me angry
let me tell u, its the CIA with the help of the Saudis who did it.
So America kinda shot itself in its legs by creating them,we all saw what happened to the American people at nine eleven. I think Americana are very nice people in general, but they should open their eyes a bit and see how their troops in Iraq are destroying that once glorious country. What I'm tying to say is that the troops there should sort themselves out and leave.
I agree with you all in the point that Saddam was evil, but Saddam is now dead.So what's the point in staying?
I would feel angry, because do we ever see a story of the oppisites?
There are actually women in Iraq, who are paid to cry suddenly for the camera!
I'm definatley not for all the money we're spending, and our own family there (my cousin is currently serving in the air force in afganistan...) but again we can't just leave Iraq in the current condition it's in now.
I hope Iraq can quickly change for the better and we can pull our troops out, but I'm not for not finishing what we start.
sophieDP.. I think that now that America is in Iraq they are trying to give Iraq a good government, and give Iraqi people have a "stable" or "normal" every day life... I think what we want to accomplish is a better system for everyone in Iraq, and yes I agree right now we're not achieving too much right now, but we are helping education, and trying to help...
The major reason why I support the war is to say that I don't believe America should back down now, and that we should stay in Iraq until we leave Iraq in a good place.. I don't necissarly agree with everything that Bush is saying, or everything that is going on there.
cause he had the fuckin receipt
I lived in Cairo, Egypt for four years, a nation ruled by an authoritarian president who-- since he is good chums with our Commander in Chief-- has received very little criticism from the US for silencing anyone who wants to run against him in the elections. Regardless, the Egyptians still have plenty of freedoms that US citizens have. While their censorship laws are a bit stricter, they are mainly in relation to sexual situations in film. Even so, Egypt is the Hollywood of the Middle East, and have plenty of their own risque movies, despite their Muslim culture. If you ask an Egyptian if you think he is free, he will say, "No, I'm not. They claim we live in a democracy and we don't. Bush praises Mubarak and then completely ignores how he squashes his competition." But the mere FACT that he is allowed to say that shows that he at least can. And they HAVE said that. I have spoken to plenty of locals on the subject. They're annoyed at the US for its hypocrisy.
Please tell me: If Bush or someone of his ilk WAS NOT in office during 9/11 or the months that came after it, do you STILL think we'd be at war IN IRAQ? Iraq has nothing to do with 9/11.
I have grown up around marines. I adore them. I have gone to two marine balls celebrating their history, and I have been proud of them. I am not against our troops. I support them. I want them safe. 2,973 died on September 11th. Over 3,000 have died in Iraq since then. I don't want that number to rise. We are NOT fighting terrorist cells, and even if we were-- why Al Qaeda? Why is that group the buzz word, considering if we wanted to fight terror, we could have started with home grown cells, with South American terrorist groups, or with the oppression of our own government. What makes Iraq so special, when oppression occurs in Saudi, and there are Al Qaeda cells there as well. We don't go into Saudi because they're our allies. We are a bully. Whoever isn't friends with us, regardless of the plethora of human rights they have committed, is our enemies. Israel, Saudi Arabia, Egypt-- all of them are committing grave human rights crimes, but we don't care one lick because they give us money/support/oil.
To be fair, I loathe Mubarak. But I would rather live in Egypt than the USA because at least the people know what's going on. When you're president for 25 years and no one has voted for you in 26, it's pretty obvious how you got your job.
I think the US is less free because of the war. It is not "defending" its freedom in Iraq. Iraq was never a danger for the freedom in the US.
The war is killing thousands and thousands of people and costing billions of dollar that could have been used in so many ways to promote peace and freedom both in the US and in other countries.
Do your homework, it was about our freedom of life. They posed a threat towards us. Iraq was giving financial support to suicide bombers. I don't know about you, but I would like to know I can go to work or go on Vacation and not worry about these idiots killing themselves and killing me while there doing it. I don't care who was in office, we were going to war. If you can't support your country, I don't think our country should support you. You talk so wonderfully about our troops, you don't deserve thier protection. This is America the brave and the Free. You can have your opinion I can have mine. The big difference between you and I is I honor my country. I will wave my flag proudly.
My brother is going over there in a couple weeks and I believe that he is going over there and risking his life for a reason. I dont think it mattered who was the president on 9/11, when we got hit the USA was going to do something about it. We arent just going to sit around and let innocent poeple get killed by them and do nothing about it!!
And what do you think the people in Iraq think? Ten thousands of them were killed in the war. Nobody counts their exact number!
But they could say "The US attacked us. The US killed XXX,XXX of our people."
How do you think this will help in stopping terrorist organizations? Creating hate is what they want.
Btw, how is the US so free if you are told to "go to Egypt" if you voice your opinion? Or that one doesn't "deserve the protection" of the troops? This with-us-or-against-us attitude isn't a characteristic of a free country.
Anyone who has seen "link"-- or for a more historical context, know anything about how Hitler link know that you can convince a nation of pretty much anything.
The war in Iraq has NOTHING to do with September 11, or Al Qaeda. In the past seven years, more Americans have died from heart attacks than terrorist attacks. It was the same way BEFORE 9/11. The Bush administration is using fear in order to control the masses. They get more mileage out of 9/11 than Rudy Guilliani.
Believe me-- the War in Iraq is exacerbating the conflict, not helping. The US reputation in the Middle East has plummeted. I have seen this first hand. It's a much different perspective, on the outside looking in.
You accuse me of "not supporting my country," I assume that means you think I'm not being patriotic as well. Patriotism IS questioning the government. Patriotism is wanting what is best for your country and the world. You're right. You are completely allowed to voice your opinion. This is a friendly discussion, and as you underlined, a free country (comparatively). Just because I am the voice of dissent suddenly means I am not deserving of the liberties of this nation?
Last I checked, we still have most of our free speech ("most" as it-- among other liberties-- has been compromised by the Patriot Act). I thought we were just exchanging ideas here. I never said I didn't want what was best for America. I just want what's best for the rest of the world too.
I apologize for the biting sarcasm.
The reason I think we should care about the rest of the world is because we certainly pretend to. I mean, look how we've stuck our nose into Iraq trying to spread democracy. Manifest destiny is bull. And America is far from self-reliant, and thank God for that. If it was, there would be no economy. There would be no America come to that, without the help of fine folks like the French.
America has plenty of high points. But as the international community has tried to point out to American tourists, they are pointlessly arrogant. When I criticize the government and its policies, I am doing just that: Patriotically standing up for what's best for my country. Invading Iraq is NOT what was best for our country, least of all after 9/11. We have lost good soldiers to an ambiguous cause hiding behind the political buzz words of "The War on Terror." What terror? Saddam Hussein's terror? We want to free his people? What about the Sudanese? What about the Burmese? Why Iraq? It's not because of Al Qaeda. I'll tell you, if it was, this war would have been over after Tora Bora.
And yes, the government is, indirectly, paying for my education, but only because they pay my Dad's salary. Before you call me a hypocrite, my Dad is a diplomat, smoothing over relations in nations that are getting irritated with us. And I want to improve the government. It's not like I'm anti-American, it's just the opposite. And I really don't see the connection between the war in Iraq and AMERICAN freedom. Freedom to do what, exactly? People are still scared to go on airplanes. People are still afraid of terror attacks. Why? Because Bush and co make us that way with their propoganda. I mean, were we any LESS free before 9/11? What's that word even MEAN, freedom? Freedom from oppression? From fear? From danger? Because we aren't free of oppression or danger, as a result of the War on Terror, anyway, and only you can decide to be free of fear. Freedom to be who we want? Freedom to say what we please? To live as we please? To criticize our government? Because I thought we had all of those freedoms before the war in Iraq.
Rather than regurgitating Fox news phrases like "fighting for our freedom," ask yourselves what exactly they mean by that. Al Qaeda wasn't even a blip on the American radar until 9/11. And there are cells all over the middle east, all over the world in fact, so eradicating them in Iraq-- if we even have-- will not guarantee our "freedom" from them.
Listen. We are a global community. I care deeply about the rest of the world because it's made up with people like you and me. Most of whom are worse off. I care about the Sudanese refugees, the Palestinians whose homes are getting destroyed by US-made tanks, and the Burmese people whose voices have been stripped from them from their government. There are people who need our help, but do you know why the only ones helping them are humanitarians and volunteer organizations? Because there is no political gain. Pure and simple.
There are a lot of things about America that I like. Starbucks. Baseball. Network television. Their (higher) education system (their lower education could use some work). But our government, at this place in time, is not one of them. I love the American person, not necessarily the American people, because it's my experience that a person is smart and people are ridiculously stupid. I suppose it's the mob mentality. But I do love the American person.
We are not the world police. And even if we were, we what right did we have-- without the support of the UN, without the support of most of the global community-- to traipse into a sovereign nation, corrupted or not, and dethrone their dictator? How come we haven't dethroned the king of Saudi yet? He's oppressive to his people. There are Al Qaeda cells in his nation, too. In fact, Al Qaeda loves it there, because they know that the US wouldn't dare raise its hand against its allies.
It has nothing to do with freedom, Iraqi or otherwise. It has to do with politics and propaganda. This is not a link.
Carly is correct on most points. Do your damned homework. The truth of everything is alllll over the damned internet. A few clicks and you will see how the USA is ranked on everything under the sun - and it ain't number 1. Not even on the Democracy scales... OR the freedom scales. Open your fucking eyes.
I don't think that anyone on here has said that the US government was perfect or the best out there, but it definitly isn't the worst one. The US may not have the most freedom but we have a hell of a lot more the a lot of other countries.
I know that I would personally rather live here than anywhere else, and this is where I would want my children raised!!!
My brother is going over there in a couple weeks and I believe that he is going over there and risking his life for a reason. I dont think it mattered who was the president on 9/11, when we got hit the USA was going to do something about it. We arent just going to sit around and let innocent poeple get killed by them and do nothing about it!! " Thats all well and good but i thought thats why we went to war with AFGHANISTAN... Iraq was based on falsified documents stating they had weapons of mass destruction and then a futile attempt to link saddam to Osama, which was later proved false.
And to EMILEE24, The legendary American writer Mark Twain once said "Being a patriot means supporting your country all the time, and your government when it deserves it". Just because we disagree with the government doesn't make us anti-American. Being American, we have the FREEDOM to disagree with our leaders. Other wise we would be a communist country.
I don't support the war; I support the troops fighting it.
And I never, ever understood the whole "weapons of mass destruction" thing. If they had them, wouldn't they have just used them on us? And, since we found out they didn't have any, why did we stay? We invaded and upeneded their country looking for these weapons that we couldn't find . . . and then stayed and shot them?
p.s:No Disrespect intended to you in particular.
A tiny comparison I've read in the library last Sunday. I shall dig that reference up ASAP after my exams. Probably a garbled quote but helas:
"Operation Eduring Freedom - Afghanistan was planned in four weeks.
Operation Desert Storm was planned during six months.
Unlike OEF-A, Desert Storm was a success."
The point? The battle of Tora Bora could have been fruitful if it wasn't for the bad planning and some arrogance... Given that the SAS actually almost cornered Bin Laden and was ordered to stand down to let the US Special Forces capture him, in the meantime, dear Usama escaped to much grief.
I apologise continuosly for what would seem like ipse-dixitisms and sarcasm and what will to come.
I'm totally confident that if an equivalent amount of the troops expended on the Iraqi campaign had been devoted to Afghanistan, Usama would be very dead right now... But some personages in the Joint Chiefs of Staff had to execute an all out and pointless assault on Iraq, based on false information regarding WMD's...
I would freely admit that Australia is not the best country out there. Wherever you cone from, why would you claim its the best? That seems to me like arrogance.
Different cultures, I guess. Here it's mostly the racist bogans that shout how great we are, and god forbid you actually own an Australian flag.
Which is not to say we aren't proud. We just don't feel the need to parade it around.
That type of patriotism does more harm than good.
I don't believe that I, as an American, am any better than anyone else just because I am American, nor do I believe my country matters more than any other country, or that it deserves more, or should be more respected by people outside of it. But it does matter more to me than many other countries, because it's my home, in the same way that Seattle matters more to me than Los Angeles of New York, because it's where I live. And it's this love of my home that spurs me to work in my community, make it a better place, and think "globally" and act "locally."
People express this in many different ways. Just because they love their country, and want to be proud of it, doesn't mean they hate everyone else's, or have no criticisms. I should hope you have pride in Australia, and its rich history and culture, and accept it for the black spots on its past and present. Certainly, I'm proud of the United States, with its rich history and culture, and accept it for its black, ugly spots, as I would a family member.
No one's perfect, but pride in your home country - regardless of what that country is - is natural, healthy and socially beneficial. After all, if the Egyptians didn't love their country as much as they did, they wouldn't have cared enough to rip it out of the clutches of a dictator.
Australia's history is pretty boring, to say the least. Lol.
I've seen the effect the rising feeling of patriotism has on my country. You see, a few years back we voted in a lovely far right-wing chap by the name of John Howard. He was the one that encouraged all this moronic patriotism and "national pride". He also inspired the hating of immigrants and refugees,, and racism spiked during his time. The effects if his era can be felt even today, as people hang Australian flags off their cars and bash Indian students and shout "Stop the boats!!! Australians first! Australia over all!"
Mark Twain wrote various things about patriotism, and out of his writings two definitions seemed to emerge - even in his own eyes. Your view of a patriot, which is what I would call blind pride, and my view of the patriot, which I would call critical pride.
Mark Twain on the first kind - your view - of patriotism:
Patriotism is usually the refuge of the scoundrel. He is the man who talks the loudest.
- Education and Citizenship speech, 5/14/1908
Patriot: the person who can holler the loudest without knowing what he is hollering about.
- More Maxims of Mark, Johnson, 1927
Mark Twain on the second kind - my view - of patriotism:
In the beginning of a change the patriot is a scarce man, and brave, and hated and scorned. When his cause succeeds, the timid join him, for then it costs nothing to be a patriot.
- Notebook, 1904
"Patriotism is supporting your country all the time, and your government when it deserves it."
I don't believe that the slogans you say necessarily perpetrate the first form of "patriotism", or as I see it, false patriotism, because it is blind and thoughtless. I do believe that common phrases such as these can remind a soldier serving far from home of his family and his small town. They can remind citizens at home that they all have something in common - regardless of other differences that may exist between them.
I don't think that "The land of the free and home of the brave," is a negative phrase, or promotes a negative feeling. In fact, I believe it is the opposite.
I support the men and women in it. <3
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